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Bombs R Us Wed, 16 April 2003 19:13 Go to next message
UAF commander is currently offline UAF commander

 
Petty Officer 2nd Class

Messages: 54
Registered: November 2002
I hope someone read this board... Smile
I have an SS question:
How do SS players manage their bombing efforts?
I think using the Stealth bomber is best, as it can have 98% cloak, and be used as an overcloaker too.
But maybe poeple prefer the extra bombing power of the B-52 bomber?

And a bigger qestion:
If I have the Hush-a-boom, what should I do?
With the Hush-a-boom my cloakers would loose the overcloaking capability, but they'll be much cheaper and gatable.
And what if (to make it more difficult) I was planning on using smart bombs? the Hush-a-boom only destroy 2 building per bomb, but this add up. So what the confused SS player should do?

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Re: Bombs R Us Thu, 17 April 2003 02:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
UAF commander wrote on Thu, 17 April 2003 01:13

I hope someone read this board... Smile
I have an SS question:
How do SS players manage their bombing efforts?
I think using the Stealth bomber is best, as it can have 98% cloak, and be used as an overcloaker too.
But maybe poeple prefer the extra bombing power of the B-52 bomber?

The one time I played SS and got to use bombers I used the Stealth bomber, didn't use it as an overcloacker since I didn't even knew what that was at that time! Laughing
Quote:


And a bigger qestion:
If I have the Hush-a-boom, what should I do?
With the Hush-a-boom my cloakers would loose the overcloaking capability, but they'll be much cheaper and gatable.
And what if (to make it more difficult) I was planning on using smart bombs? the Hush-a-boom only destroy 2 building per bomb, but this add up. So what the confused SS player should do?


If you have the Hush-a-boom you USE the Hush-a-boom!!! It's the best bomb you can get!!! Fill up your bombers with them, take your enemies planets as good as intact and in only one year of bombing and which means you can turn their planets into production worlds the very next turn! And as another bonus the bombers will indeed gate perfectly.
This is IMHO one of the best (if not the best) toy you can get from the MT! (But let's not start that discussion here.)
I got it twice and they were wonderfull!! I didn't use smarts in combination, I didn't even bother to check if that would be more efficient ... I got it once as AR, once as 1/2500 SD, of course taking planets intact is not that usefull for an AR (but the 1 year kill is), better to destroy everything so if the enemy takes his planet back he'll have to start over again Twisted Evil but I had an planetary ally so some planets where meant for him ...
For the 1/2500 it was fantastic!

Sure you lose your "natural" overcloackers but I couldn't care less should I get the Hush-a-boom! Nod

regards,
mch
...

[Updated on: Thu, 17 April 2003 02:06]

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Re: Bombs R Us Thu, 17 April 2003 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marduk is currently offline Marduk

 
Ensign

Messages: 345
Registered: January 2003
Location: Dayton, OH
What I've seen used is B-52s with maximum cloaking piled on, and enough overcloakers to bring the whole fleet to a 98% cloak value. I haven't compared designs to make sure, but I think it is also cheaper that way.

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Re: Bombs R Us Fri, 18 April 2003 00:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
regiss

 
Petty Officer 1st Class

Messages: 65
Registered: November 2002
Micha,

How much do You expect Hushs to be to knock through the whole of the defences (it's cheaper to put up 50% hush and last LBUs to put out the whole planet out, than it's with bare hushes).

I can't grind my assumptions on calculations, couse I've lost my original Posey's spreadsheet and the new one isn't capable of calculating the bombing accurately (however that word is spelled), but I still remember that ~900 Cherry bombs were needed to bomb out a single world with full defences out in a single year.

[Updated on: Fri, 18 April 2003 00:29]

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Hush-a-boom vs others (Re: Bombs R Us) Fri, 18 April 2003 10:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
(Not really about SS anymore now, better to move some bits and bytes around Grin )

regiss wrote on Fri, 18 April 2003 06:28

Micha,

How much do You expect Hushs to be to knock through the whole of the defences (it's cheaper to put up 50% hush and last LBUs to put out the whole planet out, than it's with bare hushes).

I can't grind my assumptions on calculations, couse I've lost my original Posey's spreadsheet and the new one isn't capable of calculating the bombing accurately (however that word is spelled), but I still remember that ~900 Cherry bombs were needed to bomb out a single world with full defences out in a single year.




One H-a-b costs me at max tech:
1kT iron
2kT bor
no germ
2 resources
weighs 5kT
kills 3.0% of the pop
destroys 2 buildings

The LBU-74 (latest model):
1kT iron
18kT bor
7kT germ
8 resources
weighs 45kT
kills 0.4% of the pop
destroys 45 buildings

Cherry:
1kT
13kT
no germ
6 resources
weighs 52kT
kills 2.5% of the pop
destroys 10 buildings

I don't have the sheet at hand, but these are the numbers I wrote down one day ...

Hush-a-boom:
1.100.000 people planet with:
100 neutron defences need 101 B-52s
100 planetary defences need 44 B-52s
100 laser defences need 24 B-52s
100 missile defences need 15 B-52s

Cherry:
100 planetary defences need 53 B-52s (848 bombs)

The H-a-b (a lot) costs less, kills more cols, kills LESS instalations (very important) and weighs less (gate-able, others are NOT, unless with mini bombers or B-8.5s, which means they cost more per bomb, and yes yes IT too).

The major point with H-a-b is that they let you take planets almost intact in one year at a very good price! So do not start mixing them with LBUs! Wink
And they're nicely gate-able, like I said before: one of the best things you can get from the MT!

(Not going further in detail here, that would require a bit more math ... but I think you'll get the point ...)

regards,
mch
...

[Updated on: Fri, 18 April 2003 10:58]

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Re: Bombs R Us Sat, 19 April 2003 12:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 583
Registered: November 2002
Location: Where the clowns can't re...
IMHO...

Once you get the Hush-a-boom... ignore all other bombs. There is no question about it. The zero G cost is fantastic. The mineral costs are fantastic no matter how you look at it!!!!

The ONLY downside to the H-A-B is if your enemy has battle orders set to kill your bombers.... If they do this and they succeed in killing all your bombers... you're left with warships and nothing to take the planet with. Not only that but the battle wreakage may give them they hush-a-boom all for themselves!!!!! (insert name of deity) forbid that the ENEMY should get their hands on your favourite toys!!!!

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Re: Bombs R Us Sat, 19 April 2003 18:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

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Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Quote:

The ONLY downside to the H-A-B is if your enemy has battle orders set to kill your bombers.... If they do this and they succeed in killing all your bombers... you're left with warships and nothing to take the planet with.


The same as for normal bombers, but your H-a-b bombers are lighter, this not only matters for gate-ability but they will also have more moves in a battle so they can escape faster. Still probably not fast enough to evade missile ships, but than you bring just some freighter chaff! Nod Afterall the target is: "Bombers/Freighters", not just "Bombers". Twisted Evil

Quote:

Not only that but the battle wreakage may give them they ush-a-boom all for themselves!!!!! (insert name of deity) forbid that the ENEMY should get their hands on your favourite toys!!!!


Now THAT would be bad indeed!!! Crying or Very Sad Uh Oh

regards,
mch

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Re: Bombs R Us Tue, 22 April 2003 07:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JamesWD is currently offline JamesWD

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 99
Registered: November 2002
Location: Northampton, UK

Quote:

freighter chaff! Afterall the target is: "Bombers/Freighters", not just "Bombers".


Which is more attractive? surely bombers?



[img]http://www.ukrockers.com/forum/attachments/si.gif[/img]

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Re: Bombs R Us Tue, 22 April 2003 09:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tprescott is currently offline tprescott

 
Crewman 1st Class

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Registered: December 2002
Location: ROK [GMT+9]
I think that if you load the freighters with boranium you can alter the attractiveness ratio between freighters and bombers.

Tom

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Re: Bombs R Us Tue, 22 April 2003 12:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
JamesWD wrote on Tue, 22 April 2003 13:50

Quote:

freighter chaff! Afterall the target is: "Bombers/Freighters", not just "Bombers".


Which is more attractive? surely bombers?


Let me respond with:

"Arma or AMP nubs vs FFs with just one tiny laser. Which is more attractive? Surely the big armed ships!" Wink

True, any good captian would try to kill the bombers, but the Stars! targetting algorithms (first time I'm using this word! Grin sounds really smart, doesn't it?) are limited ...
My guess is that if the bombers are shielded (which they should be) and possibly carry jammers than my bet is that the freighter chaff dies first ...

regards,
mch

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Re: Bombs R Us Tue, 22 April 2003 13:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
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Depends on the design really.

Check with your trusty battle attractiveness calculator!!

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Re: Bombs R Us Tue, 22 April 2003 13:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
freakyboy wrote on Tue, 22 April 2003 19:29

Depends on the design really.

Well of course it does, but I was referring to good fleet design. Wink

Quote:

Check with your trusty battle attractiveness calculator!!

You mean bombers vs freighter chaff? At work now so don't have it handy Wink

regards,
mch

[Updated on: Tue, 22 April 2003 13:33]

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Re: Bombs R Us Tue, 22 April 2003 15:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
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As long as you use an engine that costs at least 1kt of boranium on your freighter chaff and you have jammers on b-17's then your chaff will be hit before Hush-A-Boom bombers. With other bombers the chaff gets ignored because the normal bombers cost so much more in boranium.

Question: a bomber (mini bomber) with no bombs... would they get targetted as a bomber?

NOTE: B-52's and Stealth bombers are dead easy to make chaff protected by slapping jammers on them. The b-17 and mini bomber are REALLY hard to make less attractive than freighter chaff or non-bombing bomber hulls.

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Re: Bombs R Us Tue, 22 April 2003 17:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
freakyboy wrote on Tue, 22 April 2003 21:00

As long as you use an engine that costs at least 1kt of boranium on your freighter chaff and you have jammers on b-17's then your chaff will be hit before Hush-A-Boom bombers. With other bombers the chaff gets ignored because the normal bombers cost so much more in boranium.

Question: a bomber (mini bomber) with no bombs... would they get targetted as a bomber?

NOTE: B-52's and Stealth bombers are dead easy to make chaff protected by slapping jammers on them. The b-17 and mini bomber are REALLY hard to make less attractive than freighter chaff or non-bombing bomber hulls.


Thanks for looking that up. If you have H-a-b's you won't bother with B-17s, those B-52s are easily gate-able so you'll use that hull anyway,

regards,
mch

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Re: Bombs R Us Tue, 11 November 2003 03:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve1

 
Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 240
Registered: January 2003
Location: Australia
Quote:

Not only that but the battle wreakage may give them they hush-a-boom all for themselves!!!!! (insert name of deity) forbid that the ENEMY should get their hands on your favourite toys!!!!


Yeh did a little test on that some time ago.
The test was done with races that were maxed out on tech.
Can't remember what the toy was but that shouldn't really make any difference.
As follows:

50 x scouts scrapped individually at the same planet in the same year (with a space station). Result - no toy.
Tried it again - same result.
Tried it again but this time scrapped 100 vessels - same result.
Tried it again using 100 scouts - same result. Crying or Very Sad

Conclusion - the liklihood of gaining this tech seems very remote. Sure I could have gone on and on using more and more vessels, but an ally that's providing scrappers isn't going to keep persisting under these circumstances and you probably won't get to destroy that many bombers over and over, so i thought what's the point ? my 2 cents

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Re: Bombs R Us Tue, 11 November 2003 04:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Steve1 wrote on Tue, 11 November 2003 09:34

50 x scouts scrapped individually at the same planet in the same year (with a space station). Result - no toy.
Tried it again - same result.
Tried it again but this time scrapped 100 vessels - same result.
Tried it again using 100 scouts - same result. Crying or Very Sad

Conclusion - the liklihood of gaining this tech seems very remote. Sure I could have gone on and on using more and more vessels, but an ally that's providing scrappers isn't going to keep persisting under these circumstances and you probably won't get to destroy that many bombers over and over, so i thought what's the point ? my 2 cents


IIRC the chance increases when putting more items on a ship (in contrast to tech scrapping), so a scout wouldn't be the best platform ... A B52 OTOH carries 16 H-a-B's so your enemy will have a higher chance ...

mch

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Re: Bombs R Us Tue, 11 November 2003 05:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve1

 
Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 240
Registered: January 2003
Location: Australia
Quote:

IIRC the chance increases when putting more items on a ship (in contrast to tech scrapping), so a scout wouldn't be the best platform ... A B52 OTOH carries 16 H-a-B's so your enemy will have a higher chance ...



Yes this is true, but we also did an earlier test by giving a tech maxed out race 5 x Lifeboats (or whatever they're called) that had no toys. All 5 were scrapped separately but in the same year and no toys were gained.
Sad
There were multiple chances of gaining any one of a number of toys but still no cigar.

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Re: Bombs R Us Mon, 19 January 2004 15:53 Go to previous message
vonKreedon is currently offline vonKreedon

 
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I received the MPS from salvage in my current game. Suprised the hell out of me.

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