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Bonus Research

Fri, 03 February 2012 13:32

Lieutenant
Helped track down one or more Stars bugs

Helped track down one or more Stars bugs

Messages: 519
Registered: February 2011
Location: Delaware

I was running some numbers today and they didn't add up so I looked into it.

First off I'm using Version 2.70j

From the Help File (v2.6b)

Quote:

Gain research by spying and combining it with your own research. Gain resources in each field equal to � the average spent in that field by all races (including yourself) while at least one other race exists

So it should be

(Total spend by all players in each tech field /
the total number of players) / 2 = your bonus in that field.

Well that's not quite true.

in my testbed it works this way.

All the research that a player spends goes to the first Tech Field they researched that year and nothing to a second field.

So, if a player is researching Weapons and has "Next field to research:" set to Construction and then spends 100 resources on Weapons and 200 resources on Construction you will receive

(300 / number of Players) / 2 = what you will get in the Weapons field and nothing in the Construction field (if only the one player is researching weapons and construction, of course)

Little Eddie

[Updated on: Fri, 03 February 2012 13:33]

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Re: Bonus Research

Sat, 04 February 2012 09:26

Commander

Messages: 1369
Registered: May 2008

LittleEddie wrote on Sat, 04 February 2012 05:32

I was running some numbers today and they didn't add up so I looked into it.

First off I'm using Version 2.70j

From the Help File (v2.6b)

Quote:

Gain research by spying and combining it with your own research. Gain resources in each field equal to � the average spent in that field by all races (including yourself) while at least one other race exists

So it should be

(Total spend by all players in each tech field /
the total number of players) / 2 = your bonus in that field.

Well that's not quite true.

in my testbed it works this way.

All the research that a player spends goes to the first Tech Field they researched that year and nothing to a second field.

So, if a player is researching Weapons and has "Next field to research:" set to Construction and then spends 100 resources on Weapons and 200 resources on Construction you will receive

(300 / number of Players) / 2 = what you will get in the Weapons field and nothing in the Construction field (if only the one player is researching weapons and construction, of course)

Little Eddie

Huh. Nice to know, but it's not that much of an issue. The only real use for this I can see is that I'd do cheap con research overflowing into expensive prop to troll any SS with cheap prop looking for a bargain off everyone's prop research. Everything after that is generally in order of necessity and will generally balance out.

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Re: Bonus Research

Sat, 07 April 2012 19:51

Commander

Messages: 1608
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

> The only real use for this I can see is that I'd do cheap con research overflowing into expensive prop to troll any SS with cheap prop looking for a bargain off everyone's prop research

I really didn't understand that bit.

Anyways, yea, I remember this from my AI playing days and especially when u want the extra resources to go the secondary field.

The problem with the way stars handles this, is that when you are researching two fields in the same year, any advantage in getting a resource tech research burst, would be feasible only if u complete the research in the primary field and you shift to the secondary field.
As that happens, it means u have gained a tech and the bonus doesnt tip you over, but just goes into the initial research of the next level..
Ofcourse, it would be better used in the second field, not the first... But that's not going to happen, thanks to this bug.

It's more of a hassle than a boon, but quite insignificant, 9 out of 10 years.

I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Bonus Research

Sun, 06 May 2012 08:29

Commander

Messages: 1369
Registered: May 2008

nmid wrote on Sun, 08 April 2012 09:51

> The only real use for this I can see is that I'd do cheap con research overflowing into expensive prop to troll any SS with cheap prop looking for a bargain off everyone's prop research

I really didn't understand that bit.

What LE said in the OP is that if someone (not the SS) researches tech X (say, weaps) and sets it to switch to tech Y (say, con) when complete, and it does switch, the SS gets spying bonus as if they had solely spent resources on tech X.

So since there's a somewhat-common paradigm among SS of setting commonly expensive fields like N, P and L cheap so as to get maximum spying benefit, I (as a non-SS) would choose to overflow research into them rather than set research to them, to troll the SS.

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Re: Bonus Research

Sun, 06 May 2012 11:49

Commander

Messages: 1608
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

magic9mushroom wrote on Sun, 06 May 2012 17:59

nmid wrote on Sun, 08 April 2012 09:51

> The only real use for this I can see is that I'd do cheap con research overflowing into expensive prop to troll any SS with cheap prop looking for a bargain off everyone's prop research

I really didn't understand that bit.

What LE said in the OP is that if someone (not the SS) researches tech X (say, weaps) and sets it to switch to tech Y (say, con) when complete, and it does switch, the SS gets spying bonus as if they had solely spent resources on tech X.

So since there's a somewhat-common paradigm among SS of setting commonly expensive fields like N, P and L cheap so as to get maximum spying benefit, I (as a non-SS) would choose to overflow research into them rather than set research to them, to troll the SS.

I'm sure he was talking from the SS's perspective...

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Re: Bonus Research

Mon, 07 May 2012 06:21

Commander

Messages: 1369
Registered: May 2008

nmid wrote on Mon, 07 May 2012 01:49

magic9mushroom wrote on Sun, 06 May 2012 17:59

nmid wrote on Sun, 08 April 2012 09:51

> The only real use for this I can see is that I'd do cheap con research overflowing into expensive prop to troll any SS with cheap prop looking for a bargain off everyone's prop research

I really didn't understand that bit.

What LE said in the OP is that if someone (not the SS) researches tech X (say, weaps) and sets it to switch to tech Y (say, con) when complete, and it does switch, the SS gets spying bonus as if they had solely spent resources on tech X.

So since there's a somewhat-common paradigm among SS of setting commonly expensive fields like N, P and L cheap so as to get maximum spying benefit, I (as a non-SS) would choose to overflow research into them rather than set research to them, to troll the SS.

I'm sure he was talking from the SS's perspective...

Yeah, but there's no way to exploit it from the SS's perspective. There is a way to screw up the SS's plans from another perspective.

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Re: Bonus Research

Mon, 07 May 2012 13:35

Lt. Commander

Messages: 809
Registered: December 2008
Location: GMT -5

Who would purposely do that anyways? I've never seen an SS come even close to having a good shot at winning a game without some strong allies backing him up, research bonus or not. And if you know the SS next door is in a tech race with you then you will want to win the race instead of slowing your own for some marginal difference on the SS end.

SS pricing simply prevent them from being able to compete seriously in the industry department. A good SS is an SS who was left alone almost the whole game and that is a mistake which is never repeated more than once in the lifetime of a player.

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Re: Bonus Research

Wed, 09 May 2012 05:19

Commander

Messages: 1369
Registered: May 2008

Eagle of Fire wrote on Tue, 08 May 2012 03:35

Who would purposely do that anyways? I've never seen an SS come even close to having a good shot at winning a game without some strong allies backing him up, research bonus or not. And if you know the SS next door is in a tech race with you then you will want to win the race instead of slowing your own for some marginal difference on the SS end.

SS pricing simply prevent them from being able to compete seriously in the industry department. A good SS is an SS who was left alone almost the whole game and that is a mistake which is never repeated more than once in the lifetime of a player.

Doesn't slow down my research. It's simply a matter of which way you let the overflow run.

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Bonus Research and Techgain via Trade or Combat

Wed, 20 June 2012 20:31

Commander

Messages: 1070
Registered: August 2005
Location: Berlin

When you gain a techlevel due to tech trade or combat, do those given research points also go into the super stealth bonus research?

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Re: Bonus Research

Wed, 20 June 2012 21:20

Commander

Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023

Eagle of Fire wrote on Mon, 07 May 2012 10:35

Who would purposely do that anyways? I've never seen an SS come even close to having a good shot at winning a game without some strong allies backing him up,

lol.

[Updated on: Wed, 20 June 2012 21:21]

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Re: Bonus Research and Techgain via Trade or Combat

Thu, 21 June 2012 01:19

Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 240
Registered: April 2005
Location: Ohio

Altruist wrote on Wed, 20 June 2012 17:31

When you gain a techlevel due to tech trade or combat, do those given research points also go into the super stealth bonus research?

No

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Re: Bonus Research and Techgain via Trade or Combat

Thu, 21 June 2012 07:33

Commander

Messages: 1070
Registered: August 2005
Location: Berlin

Braindead wrote on Thu, 21 June 2012 07:19

Altruist wrote on Wed, 20 June 2012 17:31

When you gain a techlevel due to tech trade or combat, do those given research points also go into the super stealth bonus research?

No

Just to clarify, I meant the question, of course, from a non super stealth perspective. To gain a tech by conquest or combat and wether it might then add to the research bonus of an (enemy) super stealth player.

Braindead, have you tested or once calculated it?

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Re: Bonus Research and Techgain via Trade or Combat

Thu, 21 June 2012 19:46

Ensign

Messages: 345
Registered: January 2003
Location: Dayton, OH

I've tested it, and support the answer of no - levels gained from trade, combat or the MT do not count. Nor does the SS bonus itself count towards the bonus other SS players get. The bonus only comes from resources from production that are spent on research.

Dreams of SS teams skyrocketing to max tech died that day, I tell you.

One out of five dentists recommends occasional random executions to keep the peasants cowed and servile.

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Re: Bonus Research and Techgain via Trade or Combat

Thu, 21 June 2012 21:52

Commander

Messages: 1608
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

That's why SS players hate tech trading between other players.

I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Bonus Research and Techgain via Trade or Combat

Fri, 22 June 2012 08:45

Commander

Messages: 1070
Registered: August 2005
Location: Berlin

Thanks for the answeres, Braindead and Marduk.

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Re: Bonus Research and Techgain via Trade or Combat

Sat, 23 June 2012 00:03

Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 240
Registered: April 2005
Location: Ohio

Altruist wrote

Braindead, have you tested or once calculated it?

Yes, I did quite some time ago. I tested tech gains through MT, scrapping and pop-dropping.

I didn't test colonizing planets when random events are enabled because I didn't think of it as significant.

It didn't occur to me at the time to test research bonus that other SS players get, but looks like Marduk did. Thanks for confirming this.

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