| CE |
Thu, 08 January 2009 23:46  |
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 magic9mushroom |
 | Commander |
Messages: 1369
Registered: May 2008 | |
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I think it's a good idea because:
a) you start with prop 6, which gives easy radrams. Radram is an awesome early engine.
b) about 90 points.
Altruist didn't agree with me, so I'd like to hear the rest of your opinions.
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| Re: CE |
Fri, 09 January 2009 01:20  |
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[redacted]
but otherwise, no nup nada never like *%& hell. 
[Updated on: Fri, 09 January 2009 01:30] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: CE |
Fri, 09 January 2009 13:20 |
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| magic9mushroom wrote on Fri, 09 January 2009 05:46 |
a) you start with prop 6, which gives easy radrams. Radram is an awesome early engine.
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The RadRam is a warp-6 engine with exorbitant high fuel cost at above warp 6. Warp 6 is too slow and IMHO not awesome at all.
The interesting advantage of CE is the 50% cost reduction for engines and the points, of course. And this reduction comes best when you have taken NRSE and cannot build ramscoops but only the expensive standard engines, especially when you plan to use the AD8 in a horde strategy or to go asap to the IS10 and want to use it in most designs.
As Joseph pointed out, you are about 10% slower due to engine failures. This in itself I'd see more than outweight by the 50% cost reduction and for an IT the overall speed isn't really hurt taking into account all the gates... a slower colonization hurts, though. But the other problem of CE and why it is widely hated: you can't rely on ships to arrive. This is really bad. You might
* not succeed with intercepting intruders
* or fail to flee
* the minelayer-minelayerhunter war gets even more complicated
* joining reinforcements with your main attacking fleet while on the move becomes a lottery or very complicated
* all time sensitive actions or moves where fleets are supposed to meet are a headache
And if you are playing with an ally only too soon you'll feel the embarrassment of saying
* "Sorry, missed the rendevous" for the 10th time
* "Sorry for your bombers all shot down by the enemy... my BBs didn't move, CE".
And while it helps to bring down your engine failure quota, you'll hate yourself checking every damned distance wether it can be split in moves in which one might be at warp 6 or slower. There are really more exciting things to do in Stars!
So far I've used CE only once: in a game where gates, xports, fuel pods, fuel mizer and all scoops were forbidden and I knew that I'd always use the fastest expensive engine and the IS10 asap and in almost every design. Altho
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[Updated on: Fri, 09 January 2009 13:26] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: CE |
Fri, 09 January 2009 16:29 |
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| johng316 |
 | Chief Warrant Officer 3 |
Messages: 177
Registered: November 2002
Location: Indiana, USA | |
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| slimdrag00n wrote on Fri, 09 January 2009 13:56 |
So I guess to my understanding it is be bad to have a separate fleets going to the same location for a major battle because half your ships wont join the battle... Thus you would have to merge all ships with the same battle plans to make sure they all get there... that sounds really bad
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One way to get around this is to split all your fleets into single ships and merge them upon arrival. This way, 90% of your ships arrive.
Unfortunately, you give up the advantages of stacked shields, and if there is a battle on the other end you might overload the battle board.
But I could definitely see the advantages of CE, especially if you were in a team game and could cheaply produce horde ships that could then be transferred to your WM ally (who does not have CE). I don't believe the disadvantage of CE transfers with the ships to the new owner.... hehe.
John
[Updated on: Fri, 09 January 2009 16:30]
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| Re: CE |
Sat, 10 January 2009 08:02 |
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| magic9mushroom wrote on Sat, 10 January 2009 05:27 |
My point is, the fact that UR/CE scrapping existed to start with proves that CE goes away upon transfer.
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That's right.
Ships build by one race & transfered to another have the properties of the receiving race. eg.
1. ships built by a CE race & passed to a non CE race are not CE
2. ships built by a SS lose their 75% cloaking when transfered to a non SS
3. Scouts,DDs & FFs built by a JOAT lose inbuilt penscanning when passed to a non JOAT
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| Re: CE |
Sun, 11 January 2009 01:04 |
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| AlexTheGreat wrote on Sun, 11 January 2009 02:02 |
Ships build by one race & transfered to another have the properties of the receiving race. eg.
1. ships built by a CE race & passed to a non CE race are not CE
2. ships built by a SS lose their 75% cloaking when transfered to a non SS
3. Scouts,DDs & FFs built by a JOAT lose inbuilt penscanning when passed to a non JOAT
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...ships built by a non CE race & passed to a CE race are CE?
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| Re: CE |
Sun, 11 January 2009 15:11 |
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| johng316 |
| Chief Warrant Officer 3 |
Messages: 177
Registered: November 2002
Location: Indiana, USA | |
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| perrindom wrote on Sun, 11 January 2009 04:01 |
| johng316 wrote on Fri, 09 January 2009 22:29 |
| slimdrag00n wrote on Fri, 09 January 2009 13:56 |
So I guess to my understanding it is be bad to have a separate fleets going to the same location for a major battle because half your ships wont join the battle... Thus you would have to merge all ships with the same battle plans to make sure they all get there... that sounds really bad
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One way to get around this is to split all your fleets into single ships and merge them upon arrival. This way, 90% of your ships arrive.
Unfortunately, you give up the advantages of stacked shields, and if there is a battle on the other end you might overload the battle board.
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Splitting torpedo or missile ships and moving them to battle is a cheat! (if done in large numbers) Minimum damage done by a single torpedo hit 1/512th and thus 512 seperate hits with an Alpha torp will bring down the mightiest fleet in one volley. See the cheat list.
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Yes, of course, and so is overloading the battle board as I already mentioned. You should not spit your fleets if either is a possibility if these are outlawed (and they usually are). Blaming CE would be an unacceptable excuse. I merely mentioned it as a potential work-around, but cheating is obviously not OK.
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| CE, splitting fleets, costs |
Mon, 12 January 2009 05:11 |
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Splitting fleets is ok if it is done with low numbers of ships.
If it is done in such numbers that you might risk a battle overload, splitting fleets is definetly NO option. Neither do you want to dissovle a powerful stack of ships into helpless single ones, nor is it execusable to trigger a cheat/bug or possible restoration of the turn this way. Such a playing style asks for disqualification.
Nevertheless, this discussion shows quite clearly what kind of pain CE can become in times of war and battles. You can't really compensate for it but need to change your way of logistics and moving fleets around. As an example: If you want to make sure a WP1-pop-drop happens exactly in one year, better make sure to send 2 freighters. Don't split your fleet but keep them all together, may they be bombers, freighters or warships, chaffkillers or missile ships and try to live with the disadvantage of being able to use only 1 battle order. And never rely on time-sensitive reinforcements, may it be firepower or just fuel.
IMHO this not only nullifies the 50%-engine-cost-bonus but often enough, due to extra-ships needed, the overall costs are even higher than without CE.
CE is a very special LRT that needs a different playing style and scenario. You should like to play the "mañana"-style: "If it doesn't arrive today, my fleet will arrive tomorrow, who cares."
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| Re: CE |
Wed, 14 January 2009 06:43 |
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| Kaloth |
 | Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 72
Registered: September 2008
Location: Brisbane, Australia | |
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CE is fine if you put it in the context of long term travel, using your gates to move large heavy ships across most of the space in 1 or 2 jumps and then at the end just as you reach the target you try to end up within w6 of the target, or engage your sense of optimism and take a bit of a gamble and push them at full speed.
Hell, 90% of the time it works fine and your engines cost a bunch less 
And with the extra points in the wizard you can buy something nice for your race, maybe put yourself in a position where it doesn't matter if you take an extra year or two to arrive, your opponent will still be out-gunned.
Having said that, it can definitely be frustrating and if you can avoid it in your design, leave it out.
But if you are really stuck for points and think you can either plan around it or gamble a lot, then it's not a complete race-breaker.
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