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max weight/distance for gates Sun, 19 October 2008 21:35 Go to next message
bigcanuknaz is currently offline bigcanuknaz

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 205
Registered: July 2004
I know you can go overweight and overdistance by a few percent. I looked and searched but could not find a reference to a specific limit. When designing my ships for a 300/500 gate, how heavy can I make them for no damage?

Does the same % apply to distance overgating?

Does the same % apply to other gates?

naz

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Re: max weight/distance for gates Sun, 19 October 2008 22:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gible

 
Commander

Messages: 1344
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Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Guts of Overgating

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Re: max weight/distance for gates Sun, 19 October 2008 22:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigcanuknaz is currently offline bigcanuknaz

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 205
Registered: July 2004
Thanks gible.

but, I guess I was not clear.

I don't want to know how much damage I will take. I want to know how much overweight and/or overdistance I can go without having any damage or any chance of disappearing.

naz

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Re: max weight/distance for gates Sun, 19 October 2008 23:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

Messages: 1369
Registered: May 2008
0?

The damage is scaled by where you are between the safety limit and the actual limit.

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Re: max weight/distance for gates Mon, 20 October 2008 08:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1219
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
bigcanuknaz wrote on Mon, 20 October 2008 04:30

I want to know how much overweight and/or overdistance I can go without having any damage or any chance of disappearing.

The name of the gates tells you all. 100/250 means you can gate without damage a ship of mass 100kT and less to a distance of 250 LY and below. Anything more will do some damage.

BR, Iztok

[Updated on: Mon, 20 October 2008 08:15]

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Re: max weight/distance for gates Mon, 20 October 2008 09:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigcanuknaz is currently offline bigcanuknaz

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 205
Registered: July 2004
Hmmm...

In stars, if you have a 300/500 gate, and you select a planet 518.7 (for example) light years away, the display does not say warp9, or warp10, it immeadiately defaults to "use stargate" and does not say "danger."

I have always assumed this is a safe gate, with no damage, and no chance of ship loss.

Are you saying that there will be minimal damage, and that there is a small chance of ship loss?

I usually play IT, so with the any/300 gate, do not have ship weight restrictions. Now, playing with another race, I assumed that there was the same allowance with weight, where you could safely gate a say 303, or 315 kt ship through a 300/500 gate.

I guess I'll have to testbed it. I'll get back to you.

naz

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Re: max weight/distance for gates Mon, 20 October 2008 10:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigcanuknaz is currently offline bigcanuknaz

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

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I tried 518.7 ly through a 300/500 gate. No ship loss and no damage. I will try more ships, and other distances.

I will also test for slightly overweight.

naz

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Re: max weight/distance for gates Mon, 20 October 2008 11:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vonKreedon is currently offline vonKreedon

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 610
Registered: March 2003
Location: Seattle, WA USA
My experience is that there is slight wiggle room in overgating, both distance and mass, and that the interface is accurate in showing if you are in the "safe" overgating range or in danger of being damaged.

Of course, you can greatly mitigate an damage by setting your overgating ships to merge with other ships, particularly recomend an SFX, on arrival.

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Re: max weight/distance for gates Mon, 20 October 2008 14:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bystander is currently offline Bystander

 
Chief Warrant Officer 1
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Duel Club Champion 2007

Helped track down one or more Stars bugs

Messages: 141
Registered: June 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida, USA

I found the writeup by a guy named Bill Butler on overgating and saved it to a draft email for storage many years ago:

Any damage suffered through overgating is added to any existing damage. So a 75% damaged ship, suffering 25% damage will be at 100% damage and thus die.
It is also possible due to rounding, that a ship could suffer 100% damage from extreme overgating, and thus die this way even if it starts as undamaged.


Distance Overgating (Safe mass):
1% for every 4% beyond the safe distance, starting at 104%. For ships significantly below the safe mass, the damage suffered will be slightly less (as little as 0.96 * expected damage as above).

-When distance overgating, only the limits of the sending gate are important.
-When mass overgating, the limits of BOTH gates are relevant in calculating damage, but only the sending gate is relevant in calculating the chance of the ship vanishing.
-IT races have a decreased chance of overgated ships disappearing into the void. However, ships that do gate successfully are damaged just as much as any other race's.



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Re: max weight/distance for gates Tue, 21 October 2008 20:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigcanuknaz is currently offline bigcanuknaz

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

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tests complete

ships up to weight 305kt gated without damage or loss 500.7 ly through a 300/500 gate

306kt ships cannot gate safely at any distance.

ships can gate greater distances (I tested up to 518 ly)

lighter ships can overdistance gate further. (a 100 kt ship could gate 518 ly, but a 305 kt ship could not gate 508.7 ly whereas a 303 kt ship could.

Based on the 4% and 1% for distance and mass in the previous post, I am guessing very light ships can gate 520+ ly (4% over)
and 305 kt ships can gate only 500 (or 505) ly

weight tests are easy, but distance tests are dependent on the map you get.

naz

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Re: max weight/distance for gates Wed, 22 October 2008 07:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

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bigcanuknaz wrote on Wed, 22 October 2008 02:21

tests complete

ships up to weight 305kt gated without damage or loss 500.7 ly through a 300/500 gate

306kt ships cannot gate safely at any distance.

ships can gate greater distances (I tested up to 518 ly)

lighter ships can overdistance gate further. (a 100 kt ship could gate 518 ly, but a 305 kt ship could not gate 508.7 ly whereas a 303 kt ship could.

Based on the 4% and 1% for distance and mass in the previous post, I am guessing very light ships can gate 520+ ly (4% over)
and 305 kt ships can gate only 500 (or 505) ly


Good to know. Nice work! Teleport


Quote:

weight tests are easy, but distance tests are dependent on the map you get.


Perhaps use a medium packed or a large packed? Sherlock



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: max weight/distance for gates Wed, 22 October 2008 19:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

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didn't know there was leeway in what you could do. So they're actually 305/505 gates then. Razz

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Re: max weight/distance for gates Fri, 24 October 2008 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mynd is currently offline Mynd

 
Crewman 1st Class

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I would be willing to bet that there is a combinatorial formula in there somewhere, adding together mass and distance in some linear combination, then checking against the same linear combination of the safe-mass and safe-distance.

If I can get a decent sampling of data for it, I could run some math equations to see if I can solve for a formula. Very Happy

Alas, I have no time to gather the data myself, so if someone else (or multiple people?) could do so...

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Re: max weight/distance for gates Fri, 24 October 2008 17:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LEit is currently offline LEit

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 879
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If I'm understanding Posey's spreadsheet correctly, the formula for damage is:
1-(mass over)/4*(mass limit)
1-(range over)/4*(range limit)

Total damage is (mass damage) + (range damage) - ((mass damage) * (range damage))

If this total is less then 1%, then no damage is done. I'm not sure if it rounds or not, or when it does.

Posey's spreadsheet says that a 305 kT ship will take 1% damage, but bigcanuknaz tested it and they take no damage, so obviously the rounding is different for the spreadsheet then in the game. My guess is 2% over rated mass - 1kT is safe (which does work out to 305 for a 300kT gate).

Be careful in testing distance. If the distance listed is 35.3 that could be 35.30 or 35.03, there is a bug in the display of distance.



- LEit

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Re: max weight/distance for gates Sun, 26 October 2008 12:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2768
Registered: October 2004
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LEit wrote on Fri, 24 October 2008 23:57

If I'm understanding Posey's spreadsheet correctly, the formula for damage is:
1-(mass over)/4*(mass limit)
1-(range over)/4*(range limit)

Total damage is (mass damage) + (range damage) - ((mass damage) * (range damage))

Hmm, would be good to know if that math is exact or just a reasonable approximation. Sherlock

Quote:

If the distance listed is 35.3 that could be 35.30 or 35.03, there is a bug in the display of distance.

Actually, 35.30 would display correctly as 35.30. It's the 35.03 that suffers the bug and displays as a misleading 35.3. Hit Computer



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: max weight/distance for gates Mon, 27 October 2008 12:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LEit is currently offline LEit

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 879
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m.a@stars wrote on Sun, 26 October 2008 12:45

LEit wrote on Fri, 24 October 2008 23:57

Total damage is (mass damage) + (range damage) - ((mass damage) * (range damage))

Hmm, would be good to know if that math is exact or just a reasonable approximation.


I don't know, but the (m+d)-(m*d) formula tends to repeat itself a lot in Stars!, so it could be right execpt for rounding differences.



- LEit

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Re: max weight/distance for gates Mon, 24 November 2008 22:05 Go to previous message
bigcanuknaz is currently offline bigcanuknaz

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 205
Registered: July 2004
Mynd wrote on Fri, 24 October 2008 15:58

I would be willing to bet that there is a combinatorial formula in there somewhere, adding together mass and distance in some linear combination, then checking against the same linear combination of the safe-mass and safe-distance.

If I can get a decent sampling of data for it, I could run some math equations to see if I can solve for a formula. Very Happy

Alas, I have no time to gather the data myself, so if someone else (or multiple people?) could do so...


8 - 80 kt privateers gate with no damage 517.62ly through a 300/500 gate. (race JoaT, (don't tell anyone!! Very Happy ))

naz

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