Home World Forum: IT » Anti-Matter Generator?

Commander

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Registered: May 2008

Why is it considered good, when it costs more than, weighs more than, and is only better than over 7 year journeys or more (unlikely for IT) the Super Fuel Tank?

Re: Anti-Matter Generator?

Sat, 02 August 2008 04:25

GJScarritt

Crewman 3rd Class

Messages: 9
Registered: August 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO

If an IT didn't take IFE as a secondary racial trait, then the opportunity to add a 200mg fuel tank and 50mg production each year to multiple ships (i normally add it to my bomber designs) is invaluable. It can also be added to those dedicated skimishers/minesweepers/harrassing ships which would allow them to opporate for longer periods of time without refueling.

Re: Anti-Matter Generator?

Sat, 02 August 2008 06:59

Commander

Messages: 1369
Registered: May 2008

You miss my point. How is it any better than the cheaper Super Fuel Tank? On skirmishing vessels, though, you have a point.

Re: Anti-Matter Generator?

Sat, 02 August 2008 07:38

Altruist

Commander

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Location: Berlin

magic9mushroom wrote on Sat, 02 August 2008 12:59

How is it any better than the cheaper Super Fuel Tank?

The anti-matter-generator is an electronic part and needs completly different tech than the mechanical super fuel tank... sometimes that's important.

On ships which are supposed to operate in the depth of the enemy's space for a long time, anti-matter-generators are, of course, invaluable.

On bombers... it depends. If you plan (and can) build docks or bases along the way of your fleet, super fuel tanks with their 500ml are not only cheaper but also better than the 250ml-anti-matters. If you can't build gas stations along your fleet's path, anti-matters are superiour.

Re: Anti-Matter Generator?

Fri, 19 August 2011 13:26

slimdrag00n

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I always put Anti-Matter Generators on my B 17 bombers. Seems to help a little with my play style.

When I send my ships for attacking, I always send back my SFX ships to refuel and then merge back with the fleet. Meanwhile my bombers are producing a small amount of fuel for back up.

Although I haven't tried just adding a Super fuel Tank to a bomber so I can't really compare if it would do better.

AMG has always served my bombers well.

Unfortunately that is the only good use I have found for the AMG.

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Re: Anti-Matter Generator?

Fri, 19 August 2011 18:01

Lt. Commander

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Re: Anti-Matter Generator?

Fri, 19 August 2011 19:20

slimdrag00n

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My text is blue. I have trouble separating quotes.

Eagle of Fire wrote on Fri, 19 August 2011 18:01

I have never found an use for the Antimatter tank. And I play IT a lot. Way too costly, both in resources and minerals and tech required to be able to use it. There is no point in having to scrap half my designs only to add a piece of tech which is not even better than what I already had before.

By the time I have B 17 bombers and cherry bombs I already have required tech to put Antimatter tank on them. Maybe it is situational but it works for my style.

There is nothing the tank do that cannot be done better with a normal fuel tank and either a combination of it and either IFE or ISB.

I really have problem to fathom an IT player not taking at least one between IFE and ISB. They have to build tons of early forts, ISB really help with the dock and it also add on to their already cheap SB building and add inherent cloaking against other IT players. IFE boost their already very high prop at the very beginning of the game and even with NRSE give out the FM which is about the best non-combat engine around, short of chaff.

I don't care for docks but I do use IFE but that only helps with fast colonizing. I would never use FM on any Armed ships leaving them slow and vulnerable in battle. Sending my whole army back to a fort, then to a SB then back to a fort then back to bombing conquest is not efficient. Ill explain more below because I think we have different play style or have been in different situations.

Also, send your SFX for refuel? Are you kidding me? Those are supposed to stay with your fleet to generate more fuel enroute... That's kind of the point. Because as far as fuel boosters goes, there is way cheaper alternatives than an SFX.

Unfortunately I don't know a better way to get fuel. SFX seem the best ship to use because that's what they are designed for.
After a few warp 9 and 10 jumps fuel burns quickly and 20 to 40 sfx don't really fuel up your huge fleet of BB's and thousands of chaff

...

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[Updated on: Fri, 19 August 2011 19:57]

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Re: Anti-Matter Generator?

Sat, 20 August 2011 18:46

Lt. Commander

Messages: 809
Registered: December 2008
Location: GMT -5

When I have docks it is only a simple matter to build a dock and refuel when needed. Especially with IT, you will want a gate built up on a conquered world ASAP. Also, cherry bombs either arrive for me very late game or fast enough so that I usually don't have the tech or the resource to build them. At that time I usually already have lesser but numerous bombers and rebuilding a mass army of cherry bombs would be a waste.

It is true that I often build many more SFX than I need... But then again I usually equip them with my best scanner because I hardly ever bring scouts with me when attacking planets. They tend to die like chaff and that's really a wasted design slot anyways if my SFX can act as the dual purpose. SFX are always there with my fleet and if I need to spot SS players they do the scouting job fine as they never run out of fuel. Even more so with the FM.

Also, I specifically stated that the FM is the best non-combat ship. SFX is a non-combat ship. Just as the bombers are.

An alternative to having to send your SFX back could be to have a second SFX fleet available to gate to your newly conquered world(s) while your main fleet advance every year. I know from experience though that once you hit Cherry you can very hardly ever do that because of the opposition you meet but meh.

[Updated on: Sat, 20 August 2011 18:47]

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Re: Anti-Matter Generator?

Wed, 24 August 2011 04:13

Commander

Messages: 1369
Registered: May 2008

I know I use minicolos for fuel, but then again non-HEs don't get those.

Re: Anti-Matter Generator?

Sun, 02 October 2011 20:33

neilhoward

Commander

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Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023

Eagle of Fire wrote on Sat, 20 August 2011 15:46

Also, I specifically stated that the FM is the best non-combat ship.

The qj5 is the best non-combat engine, due to its cost and weight making up for its difference in fuel use. The FM is one of the most expensive engines in the game (since the RW points can go toward economy) so comes in third after the TGFS.
Cheers

Re: Anti-Matter Generator?

Sun, 02 October 2011 22:15

Lt. Commander

Messages: 809
Registered: December 2008
Location: GMT -5

You obviously do your math wrong... Shocked

The FM is not purchased alone. It come in a package with IFE. With IFE, you get one bonus prop level, all your ships consume less fuel (by 15%) and give you access to the FM and the Galaxy Scoop.

Nobody purchase IFE for the FM alone. Saying that using the FM cost you development point is ridiculous. It is simply a strategical choice at race creation. (And I have to say that when you play IT, you already start with a quite high prop score in comparison to every other races. Choosing SRTs which increase that prop further does open a lot of strategical options like choosing prop expensive and planning to never go above prop 12 for the overthruster, for example.)

You also have to consider the fact that the FM is a scoop engine. Not only it does not consume much fuel at all (which certainly cannot be said for the QJ5, especially for any warp above 5) but you can generate your own fuel once it run out. This make it perfect for transport ships which need to do long trips in space: if something happen you are never stranded anywhere. Just W4 a few years and you'll fill your your tanks again.

The only real good use of QJ5 is for chaff. Because you will mass produce ten of thousands of them and because even at high prop level the FM cannot hope to miniaturize enough to compete with it. But for ships like the Xport, scouts or transports which I will use (hopefully) all game long? FM is always the best for its cost, performance and its weight. And to top it off: it doesn't require germanium which is probably a boon for a +F race.

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Re: Anti-Matter Generator?

Mon, 03 October 2011 01:07

neilhoward

Commander

Messages: 1112
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Location: SW3 & 10023

Eagle of Fire wrote on Sun, 02 October 2011 19:15

You obviously do your math wrong...

fail troll is fail.

Quote:

The FM is not purchased alone. It come in a package with IFE.

... that costs ~75 RW points.

Quote:

With IFE, you get one bonus prop level,

1 level of tech for more than the cost of a cheaper tech doesn't seem like a very good deal

Quote:

Saying that using the FM cost you development point is ridiculous.

Either you don't know what ridiculous means, or you don't know what race wizard points are.

Quote:

...strategical options like choosing prop expensive and planning to never go above prop 12 for the overthruster, for example.)

So at 2470, all things else equal, the race that spent ~75 RW points on an additional 1% MPGR and additional mine will have twice the resources as the race that spent it on IFE.
I can and do go w10 with the qj5, but IFE will not get you to ARM BBs or Nubians faster, though increasing economic growth will.

Quote:

but you can generate your own fuel once it run out

Both the SFX and any ship with TGFS or Antimatter Generator do it better for a lower relative cost at the appropriate game era.

Quote:

Just W4 a few years and you'll fill your your tanks again.

Or use boosters for less cumulative resource, mineral, and RW cost, with fewer ships doing jack. It takes a long time for the FM to gather enough fuel for a single w9 jump. Those are wasted ship years that are not giving returns on the resources and minerals that were invested in their construction.

Quote:

The only real good use of QJ5 is for chaff.

Or on a PVT dedicated to shifting pop and minerals via gate. Or having 1.01^X turns more resources, lol.

Quote:

mass produce ten of thousands of them [chaff] and because even at high prop level the FM cannot hope to miniaturize enough to compete with it[qj5].

FYI, chaff is a waste against Jihads. Smirk

FM miniaturize faster than QJ5, just like the FF gets cheaper than the SS, and so become less attractive to missiles.

Ultimately both the FM and QJ5 ...

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Re: Anti-Matter Generator?

Tue, 04 October 2011 02:40

Lt. Commander

Messages: 809
Registered: December 2008
Location: GMT -5

You now call me a troll? And you're the one who dissect my post line by line instead of reading it as a whole, one of the most obvious troll tactics?

Nothing of what you said here and on the other thread in the Academy make any sense so far. I'm not going to wasting time reading this long post now that it is so obvious that you are simply trying to...

Actually, I have no idea of what you're trying to do.

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Re: Anti-Matter Generator?

Tue, 04 October 2011 03:16

neilhoward

Commander

Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023

I call you a troll because you are trying to puff yourself up by being rude to a computer, and I laugh at you because you are a failure. This is just an internet forum about a video game. It is not that important.

If you do not understand what is written, the imperfection is yours.

What you call my maths, are not mine. It comes from discussion between Art Lathrop and Jason Cawley, with some commentary from Micha. You can check the accuracy with a simple calculator.

I read your post and it is wrong on many points, I just pointed out a few.

Calling my statement ridiculous when (or because) you do not understand it, is a weak appeal to ignorance. That is not a healthy way to deal with impudent rage.

You can not make yourself important just by throwing around baseless contradictions to other peoples statements. You have made some constructive contributions to other discussions, so I do not understand why you fall back to such a weak and transparent ploy for attention. I did not ask for your comments or your abuse, but it doesn't bother me. I pity you.

Re: Anti-Matter Generator?

Tue, 04 October 2011 04:22

Lt. Commander

Messages: 809
Registered: December 2008
Location: GMT -5

You are a computer now?

Or you mean I'm having a conversation with a computer (i.e. you)?

I think I'm done wasting time with you, especially since I don't agree with anything you said on your last post.

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Re: Anti-Matter Generator?

Tue, 04 October 2011 11:11

slimdrag00n

Lieutenant
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Messages: 630
Registered: January 2009
Location: new york -5

I love this forum. Stars gets people so ramped up! Makes the blood boil in your veins!

Yeah!

Neil, we should do some tests using IT this week.

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Re: Anti-Matter Generator?

Sun, 16 September 2012 07:27

Commander

Messages: 1369
Registered: May 2008

neilhoward wrote on Mon, 03 October 2011 16:07

FYI, chaff is a waste against Jihads.

Quote:

For a race as expensive as IT which gets cheaper gates that move pop and minerals, plus a nifty toy that makes fuel, IFE just isn't worth all the costs.

These are the important bits to take away from Neil's post. The rest is just pointless douchebaggery.

[Updated on: Sun, 16 September 2012 07:28]

posting behaviour

Sun, 16 September 2012 07:59

Altruist

Commander

Messages: 1070
Registered: August 2005
Location: Berlin

magic9mushroom wrote on Sun, 16 September 2012 13:27

The rest is just pointless douchebaggery.

You posted in a 1-year old thread to say this?

May I ask how old you are?

Re: posting behaviour

Sun, 16 September 2012 08:03

Commander

Messages: 1369
Registered: May 2008

Altruist wrote on Sun, 16 September 2012 21:59

magic9mushroom wrote on Sun, 16 September 2012 13:27
The rest is just pointless douchebaggery.

You posted in a 1-year old thread to say this?

May I ask how old you are?

Oh, sorry. Embarassed

Was in the IT forum for the more recent threads and didn't check last-post date. I got used to forums where the third thread down isn't a year old. Laughing