| Gateable overcloakers |
Mon, 06 December 2004 04:36  |
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 Carn |
 | Officer Cadet 4th Year |
Messages: 284
Registered: May 2003 | |
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Any ideas how to design cost optimal overcloakers which are gateable?
Or is it more cost effective to build normal overcloakers and simple send more when gating?
And while it is not cost effective to put ultras on nubian war ships, when having heavy overcloakers, does this change in the case of having gateable overcloakers(more expensive to cloak x kt) in case of missle or torpedo ships(which weigh more and might suffer less from 3 ultras, since especially torpedos can do with 1 slot of comps and do not need that many deflectors)?
Carn
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| Re: Gateable overcloakers |
Mon, 06 December 2004 05:19  |
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Gateable Overcloakers certainly do exist, the safe mass then is 300 kt; and therefore less effective in cloaking fleets.
The battleship with its base hull weight of 222 kt would be out of the question.
With SS, the rogue is a wise choice:
4 ply of US, 2 ply of computers, some shielding, 4 ply of missiles... can make a capital class overcloaker...
Similar designs can be created with the galleon and the nubian.
However, overcloakers should be able to survive a battle in order to ensure they can cloak the remainder of the ships when you move on to the next target (or wherever.)
When an overcloaker is equipped with weapons, it runs the risk of being destroyed, and then the investment in electronics which is reflected in the design is lost, and the capability as well.
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| Re: Gateable overcloakers |
Mon, 06 December 2004 12:11 |
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building mass of gateable overcloakers will simly slow thwe military effort.
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Depends on your goal and the map situation. Sniping and distraction can be very cost effective. Not every battlefield is only 100ly square.
To begin with you often can snipe a few transports of the enemy that are expanding in a direction he thought was safe.
Then the enemy comes up with some sort of counter design to you sniping teams which can be comical. He doesn't know the nature of your threat so he may misreact.
As well his friends are less likely to openly help him, when they fear your phantom menace may start targetting their unarmed shipping as well.
The enemy doesn't know who you may have secretly traded info or ships to in order for a little gate access on an unexpected front.
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Cloaks do defend nothing
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I disagree. Not knowing where the defenders are makes the attacker uneasy. He may not attack when he could (fearing a cloaked defence that doesn't exist), or he may attack with insufficient forces. Defender does not cloak all his forces, just enough to keep attacker guessing.
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| Re: Gateable overcloakers |
Mon, 06 December 2004 16:38 |
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Why i need a gateable OVERCLOAKER in skirmish war? Usually few shadow shield frigates are cool enough there
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Much depends on tactics, and situation.
Advantages of frigate: small and cheap.
Disadvantages: more minefield risk. Much less flexible (can't overcloak fuel supply, tiny strategic minelayers, scouting/sniping, small additional force such as flak that would turn tide of bigger battle). Easy to counter with light torp/missle ship.
Tactic teams based on gatable overcloakers vary in composition and job, keep enemy guessing.
Medium sized gatable cloaked tactical force may including 1 or 2 gatable overcloakers, several destroyers and/or 1 cruiser and/or fuel supply boosters and/or pen scan and/or light minelaying and/or small colonist transport. A total of perhaps 4-5 ships can easy risk minefields when juicy target is possible, and often split and hit several targets. (4-5 ships is similar to how minesweepers are grouped)
A snipe might mean a single destroyer goes after the target (at warp 10) while the other 3-4 ships conserve fuel and move in other direction. Even a single old 'scout killer' class x-ray laser man-jet unshielded destroyer can wipe out a fully loaded large frieghter with fast engines. The load means the freighter slows down to battle speed 1/2.
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Build some real ones for half money use leftover for real ships and overcloak most your forces
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depends on objective. For cloaking thousands of kt of fleet, yes super overcloakers are cheaper (though harder to gate repeatedly).
For cloaking tiny single sniper, yes stick cloaks on sniper. Single torpedo escort can stop several of your snipers.
But for medium sized 300kt-600kt multipurpose tactic force able to split off single snipers/minesweepers and destroy lightly defended targets, the gatable cloaker is cost effective.
Use your heavy overcloaker in such a roll and:
a) jumpgate risk, heal between gatings.
b) it eats up fuel faster (lots of warp 9/10 far from refueling useful in sniping)
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[Updated on: Mon, 06 December 2004 16:45] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Gateable overcloakers |
Wed, 08 December 2004 04:55 |
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| Micha | 
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Messages: 2343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
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| donjon wrote on Mon, 06 December 2004 11:19 |
However, overcloakers should be able to survive a battle in order to ensure they can cloak the remainder of the ships when you move on to the next target (or wherever.)
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Overcloakers should not be present in a battle.  They add nothing being there, your ships are all visible, and your enemy knows where your OCs are and how many you have (of course you can play with that last part).
Keep them out in deepspace and retreat your main fleet to them (unless you're attacking another planet), keep them behind your own minefields so that if your enemy tracks your main fleet with a chaff he hits the field and loses track of your main fleet the very next turn ...
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When an overcloaker is equipped with weapons, it runs the risk of being destroyed, and then the investment in electronics which is reflected in the design is lost, and the capability as well.
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It's just the opposite. When an OC is equipped with weapons it has more chance to not being destroyed (should you send it into battle). Being armed it is protected by your chaff! When unarmed your enemy can snipe them like he can do with your bombers/transports/... unless you bring unarmed/freighter chaff (another design slot?  )
A heavy OC is so slow it's dead meat anyway when you lose the battle, it will never disengage in time (one advantage that a gate-able OC might have). Armed it will be protected by chaff (check attractiveness!) during the battle and give it disengage orders so it doesn't advance to the enemy forces ...
mch
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, but when those 100-150 RW points (other PRTs have more) kick in 
, then SS has a hard time to play on their terms of sheer numbers and brute force.
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Sure i use cloaked rogues too for scanning, sweeping, minelaying or picking up salvo. Sometimes even kill a freighter, scout or minelayer. 
Rogue got uselessly lot elec slots anyway and additional capasitor helps no much against its usual target. Sure i can sometimes merge some fueler or orbit checking chaff to it. But thats no overcloaker there. Thats not "putting cloaks on warship". Thats special purpose ship, rogue. Real battles dont occur with rogues. 
