Home » Primary Racial Traits » SS » Some old strategies for SS
Some old strategies for SS |
Sun, 29 August 2004 18:44 |
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I had this two files in my archives, now with 2.6j some informations are not accurate but many players can find it usefull
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Re: Some old strategies for SS |
Sun, 29 August 2004 18:45 |
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Super-Stealth Strategies ver.1.0, by Robert Lee. WAQQ73B@prodigy.com
For Stars! v.2.5a. You may distribute this document like crazy, as long
as credit is given to the original athor and you don't change anything.
Any errors or ideas? Please E-mail.
For USENET, this document was cut into two. You must load both articles
to read the entire document.
(Article 1)
CONTENTS
INTRODUCTION
SS RACE DESIGN
GENERAL BROAD STRATEGIES
DEFINED STRATEGIES AND TACTICS
1. First Strike Bomber Fleets
2. Second Strike Bomber Fleets
3. Pirating
4. Spies
5. Decoy tactics
6. Starbases and Cloaks
7. Cloaker Ships
8. Covert Mine Sweepers
(Article 2)
9. Covert Mine Laying
10. Guerrilla Warfare
SOME OTHER SMALL TIPS
YOUR OPPONENTS
Hyper Expander
Super Stealth
War Monger
Claim Adjuster
Inner Strength
Space Demolition
Packet Physics
Interstellar Traveler
Jack of All Trades
BATTLING SOME OF THE LRT'S
Improved Starbases
Mineral Alchemy
No Advanced Scanners
Regenerating Shields
CONCLUSION
CLOAKING CHART
SS WISH LIST
BUG REPORT!
WHAT'S NEW?
INTRODUCTION
Reason to fear the SS: Put your scanner effectiveness % at 50%.
You'll see how far SS can sneak thorough your airspace without any effort.
For something really eye-opening, put the effectiveness at it's minimum.
I realize that very few people play SS against humans, so I am trying
to make some suggestions on some good SS tactics to promote them. I must
say that I am not a Stars! expert, but not a Stars! newbie. I am a fan
of SS. I hope this contributes to their popularity.
I found that there was very little discussion about SS in the Stars!
portion of cyberspace. Hopefully, this document will help you get some
sense of strategy that is so richly available to SS only.
I am testing many SS races in games against the AI. Unfortunately,
some SS tactics will not work on the AI. I myself am getting strapped
for time. I will try to keep document updated
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Re: Some old strategies for SS |
Sun, 29 August 2004 18:46 |
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Super-Stealth Strategies v.2.61., by Robert Lee. WAQQ73B@prodigy.com
For Stars v.2.6. You may distribute this document like crazy, as long as
credit is given to the original athor and you don't change anything.
Ideas or errors? Please write.
INTRODUCTION
With the advent of 2.6, the Super Stealth PRT is coming ever more
popular. They now have the power to spy their opponents, which then get
resources added to reasearch, as well as other research boosting skills.
People who wondered what SS's (Super Stealth) advantages were in 2.5 has
now been answered: Research.
Why pick the Super Stealth?
The reasons:
High-Cloaking Potential
Reasearch
Tactics list
High-Cloaking Potential. All your ships get a 50% inherit cloak.
That means you get 50% cloaking for free. With the addition of more
powerful cloaking devices, your ships will be virtually invisible.
Reasearch. You have the skill to exceed at more than one research
level every year. You also have the skills to learn more tech from
salvage. You also have "free" resources devoted to reasearch, thanks to
your spying at your opponents AND friends. This can give you the edge on
research.
Tactics list. Unlike other races which have a "I see you, you see
me" quaility, the Silent are very quiet. Don't plan to be very popular
along the course of the game. Meticulous planning WILL be required. The
Silent get more unique gadgets than any other PRT. Their many other
qualities are basically unnoticed by players.
Beware. The Silent are among the hardest races to play in Stars!
They will do well in a universe where there is plenty of room. The
farther apart the stars are, the better, as it will spread out those long-
range planetary scanners.
TIPS FOR RACE DESIGN
Being one of the hardest races to play, everything little thing
counts in the race design. Resources are still the key to games. The
Silent are resource pigs. They eat them up real fast.
With your reserarch advatages, you wo
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Re: Some old strategies for SS |
Thu, 02 September 2004 10:54 |
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Steve1 | | Officer Cadet 2nd Year | Messages: 240
Registered: January 2003 Location: Australia | |
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Some comments as follows:
Quote: | High-Cloaking Potential. All your ships get a 50% inherit cloak.
That means you get 50% cloaking for free.
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Should read 75%. Perhaps it was 50% cloaking at some stage??? but it's been 75% for a long time.
Quote: | Don't plan to be very popular along the course of the game.
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Lol, that's about right. As SS you're very often the first target, especially in more advanced games.
Quote: | Try to keep a high habitability value with 1 in 3, a growth rate above 12%, and at around 2000 resources when you have 500,000 people on a planet when it is at max. factories. These are only my opinions. However, I think that if you can't meet these minimums, the Silent will be doomed. I have not experimented with low growth rate SS with lots of habitability.
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Hmmm ... A couple of problems there. 1 in 3 planets will most likely mean some decent planets, but also a high number of small greens and large yellows. Lots of planets is good, but they have to be terraformed and it costs you in the race wizard.
A growth rate well above 12% will be required to survive. 17% or better is the target IMO.
Quote: | Since many covert ships will be away for a long time, you should not pick "No Ramscoop Engines" for this PRT. Additional ships (like Fuel-Xports) to a covert fleet will lower their overall cloaking.
"Improved Fuel Efficency" will save fuel and help you escape faster. However, it seems like a real small advantage to me.
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Absolutely have to disagree there. There are those that will argue otherwise but IMHO IFE is essential for SS and the reasons are as follows: IFE would give you the FM. Being that SS starts with no Prop tech at all you get the "wonderful and fabulous" QJ5 as your default engine
Even if you research to Prop3 (or get it from others researching it) you're still stuck with a hopeless engine.
DDL7 (prop5) is the first acceptable (non-IFE) engine and it's more expensive than the FM. Furthermore if you choose IFE you get one starting l
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[Updated on: Thu, 02 September 2004 12:45] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Some old strategies for SS |
Thu, 02 September 2004 11:45 |
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mlaub | | Lieutenant | Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003 Location: MN, USA | |
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Steve1 wrote on Thu, 02 September 2004 09:54 |
Absolutely have to disagree there. There are those that will argue otherwise but IMHO IFE is essential for SS and the reasons are as follows: IFE would give you the FM. Being that SS starts with no Prop tech at all you get the "wonderful and fabulous" QJ5 as your default engine
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For short hops, and scouting, it is fine. You can use frigates with the QJ5 and fuel tanks as boosters and scouts. It is bearable with many races, and can actually tilt the game in your favor later on from the RP points you gain.
Quote: |
Now IFE is expensive, there's no doubt, so to offset most of the costs choose NRSE as well - problem solved
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No, you are just shifting the "cost" to something else. I'm not saying that IFE and the FM is bad...You just need to look at the tradeoffs involved. Stating that this is the solution, period, doesn't fit all the games you may enter, or ships you may build. Sometimes this is the right solution, somtimes it isn't. All you are doing is closing your mind to a potentially better way of doing things, in some universes/designs.
Most people pick ramscoops with a SS, for simple fuel reasons. Another example is I always use scoops with a HE, until the TS-10 (no gates). Or, I hardly ever take scoops with a IT, but with a -f IT I feel it is a must.
Breaking this down even further, I will always put scoops on Missile boats, if I have scoops. However, I put the TS-10 (if I have it) on Beamers and my Torp boats...
-Matt
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Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.
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Re: Some old strategies for SS |
Thu, 02 September 2004 15:19 |
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Steve1 | | Officer Cadet 2nd Year | Messages: 240
Registered: January 2003 Location: Australia | |
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Quote: | No, you are just shifting the "cost" to something else. I'm not saying that IFE and the FM is bad...You just need to look at the tradeoffs involved. Stating that this is the solution, period, doesn't fit all the games you may enter, or ships you may build. Sometimes this is the right solution, somtimes it isn't. All you are doing is closing your mind to a potentially better way of doing things, in some universes/designs.
Most people pick ramscoops with a SS, for simple fuel reasons. Another example is I always use scoops with a HE, until the TS-10 (no gates). Or, I hardly ever take scoops with a IT, but with a -f IT I feel it is a must.
Breaking this down even further, I will always put scoops on Missile boats, if I have scoops. However, I put the TS-10 (if I have it) on Beamers and my Torp boats...
-Matt
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Hmmm .....
I can see where you were coming from when you suggested trying non-IFE with an IT race and in truth I might be inclined to test it out in a packed universe, but SS well I don't know about that.
If you take the SS race and select IFE, NRSE and Prop +75% you end up with -3 points.
You then get the very cool FM by researching only one Prop level and receive 15% fuel savings. It easily travels at warp9 unassisted for quite some distance (depending on weight, fuel availability and no. of engines). As already mentioned you also get the IS-10 engine at Prop11 and if you decide to choose Grav immune, you need to research no higher than Prop12 for a long, long, time.
If instead you don't select either IFE or NRSE and you then choose Prop -50% you end up with -72 points.
I'll assume that Prop should be at -50% since you really do need to urgently research Prop to at least level 8 or 9 in the early stages.
So whilst I'm researching Weap or Cons and getting good speed out of my cheap FM engines, your race is needing to focus on prop and furthermore you start with a significant point disadvantage in the race wizard.
I do hear what you're saying when you mention abo
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[Updated on: Thu, 02 September 2004 15:31] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Some old strategies for SS |
Thu, 02 September 2004 16:47 |
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mlaub | | Lieutenant | Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003 Location: MN, USA | |
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Steve1 wrote on Thu, 02 September 2004 14:19 |
I'll assume that Prop should be at -50% since you really do need to urgently research Prop to at least level 8 or 9 in the early stages.
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I've actually been able to swing it with prop expensive. Yea, it was ugly...but i did it. For the most part, you are correct assuming you need at least Prop normal. The first OK scoop is at Prop 7, IIRC, and it is about on par with the FM. That's doable relatively cheaply.
Quote: |
So whilst I'm researching Weap or Cons and getting good speed out of my cheap FM engines, your race is needing to focus on prop and furthermore you start with a significant point disadvantage in the race wizard.
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Can't argue, but it hasn't ever hurt me. Remember, the IS-10 is a good engine, but it is expensive in minerals, resources and weight. Plus, you still need to get to Prop 12 to get the OT. That means you've had to research 46k to get Prop 12, starting from prop 1 and at +75%. It will take me 54K to get to Prop 16, if I have it set to -50%.
That's not a huge difference, I'd say. Now, how about that weight, mineral and resource difference? Are the cost in RP points starting to make more sense? How about the 500K difference to get the TS-10?
I was a firm advocate of the approach you are speaking of, up to a few years ago. Funny to say that I had this same argument with more experienced players too. As you can see, I have changed my perspective a bit.
Quote: |
I would find it extraordinarily difficult to not choose IFE after selecting SS as my PRT.
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Playing SS, I once used a couple fleets to terrorize several races. I think I was able to destroy around 16000 factories, and a sizeable number of colonists. The factories were the main target, tho. Not only was I successful at taking out industry, but in doing so I also made them divert valuable resources and minerals elsewhere. Building and rebuilding factories, defenses, minelayers, scouts etc. cost them *way* more than my 2 fleets cost me (they obviously didn't know what to do,
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[Updated on: Thu, 02 September 2004 17:12]
Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.
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Re: Some old strategies for SS |
Thu, 02 September 2004 18:03 |
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Steve1 | | Officer Cadet 2nd Year | Messages: 240
Registered: January 2003 Location: Australia | |
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Quote: | Expensive? in what way?
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Expensive as compared to the FM.
I could rehash the what was already said about the whole early germ requirement issue but we've already been down that path.
Quote: | The first OK scoop is at Prop 7, IIRC, and it is about on par with the FM.
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Nitpick - actually that's the sub-galactic fuel scoop which, according to my manual, is Prop8.
You'd be better off with the Prop9 scoop IMO.
Either way both of those scoops need Energy2/3 whereas the FM doesn't.
Keep in mind that even though the yellow engine is heavier and more expensive than the Prop9 scoop, it's still more fuel efficient at higher speeds.
I usually find that I can easily trade for Prop11/12, so having it at +75% is not significant. Let's face it, who wouldn't give you Prop12 in exchange Weap12 or Cons12
Getting Prop23 is usually a little trickier, but you can certainly make do with the green engine. Travelling at warp10 before all the ram-scoop races is very cool.
I'm also of the opinion that the EP benefits NRSE races more so than ramscoop races and that only requires Prop13 - one more level than I normally need (until the endgame).
Anyhow, the main points that I'm trying to make is with the SS / IFE (FM) combination I "initially" get the following benefits:
- Cheaper engines
- Faster engines
- More functional engines
- I only need to research one Prop level
- No Energy research requirement
- I get more initial points available in the race wizard than you (by choosing IFE/NRSE/Prop+75% - and that also applies if you choose prop normal).
- They consume no germ to manufacture (more available for building factories)
- I get to focus on the war tech's like Cons and Weap instead of wasting time needlessly researching Prop to level 9 (that can come later).
- Less requirement for fuel boosters / fuel exports (therefore more resources and minerals to devote to other important areas)
I'm of the opinion that with all these benefits, my race gets off to a better start (assuming all things
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[Updated on: Thu, 02 September 2004 18:15] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Some old strategies for SS |
Fri, 03 September 2004 05:29 |
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iztok | | Commander | Messages: 1219
Registered: April 2003 Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
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Hi!
Steve1 wrote on Fri, 03 September 2004 05:12 | If someone tried to offer Prop9 for my Weap12 I'd tell them to get lost. Same with Elec19 for Weap or Cons26.
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Going from elec-16 to 19 it has lowered the germ price of my late game Nub by 12%. Being a weap-cheap-rest-expensive HP at that time, with germ the scarcest mineral, that offered me for FREE 12% more Nubs (or about 150!). I'd call that a good deal. Actually, it was. I've been selling weapons only, and DIDN'T BOUGHT a single level in energy and con above 6-7 and elec from 4 to 16. And I didn't SELL weap-26, I've GIVEN it. Was so big at that time I could afford that.
Eh, nice memories, pitty I couldn't finish that game.
BR, Iztok
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Re: Some old strategies for SS |
Sat, 04 September 2004 03:46 |
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Steve1 | | Officer Cadet 2nd Year | Messages: 240
Registered: January 2003 Location: Australia | |
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Quote: | I am testing many SS races in games against the AI. Unfortunately, some SS tactics will not work on the AI.
| Um why are you wasting points using SS against the AI?
The AI is so dumb that even if your weaker (other PRT selected - non-cloaked) fleets are targetted, you can easily evade and/or hide behind planets.
The AI can see your colonies just as easily as any other race. It's only your starbases and ships that are cloaked.
SS is a good and fun race, but against the AI a total waste IMO.
On the other hand, an SS race can truly devastate a human opponent.
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