Home » Primary Racial Traits » SS » SS ultimate counter strategy?
| SS ultimate counter strategy? |
Fri, 30 July 2004 07:30  |
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 Thul |
 | Crewman 3rd Class |
Messages: 7
Registered: July 2004 | |
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Hi folks,
being new to Stars!, I seem to be in a situation where one of my neighbours is a super stealther. Though there are no hostilities yet, I fear him, and would like to learn about the most effective counter measures one cud take against an SS.
I am playing JOAT in this game.
Any help / comments / strategy guide almanachs etc. are welcome!
Greetz
Thul
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| Re: SS ultimate counter strategy? |
Fri, 30 July 2004 10:11  |
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| vonKreedon |
 | Lieutenant |
Messages: 610
Registered: March 2003
Location: Seattle, WA USA | |
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As JoaT you have almost as good an ability to spot SS as an IS due to your integral scanning ability, assuming you took NAS. A couple of options for dealing with an SS neighbor:
1 - Make friends with them, work diplomatically to acquire Robber Baron ships from the SS once he gets them. Of course RB are one of the two things one fears the most from an SS (highly cloaked Stealth Bomber assault fleets being the other), they are the number one thing I fear. But if you can acquire several of these yourself and protect them into the end-game it will give you a tremendous advantage.
2 - Find an IS and acquire Tachyon Detector ships from him once he gets them. A JoaT with TDs is a nightmare for an SS.
What is the level of players in your game? Do you have any idea what the Race Wizard tech setting are for the SS? What kind of a JoaT are you;e.g., factoryless (-f), or lots of factories, lots of cheap tech vs. expensive tech? If your race is designed to start quickly, not much ramp up time to build factories and you have cheap tech, then you want to go to war early anyway and could simply decide to attack the SS. 
[Updated on: Fri, 30 July 2004 10:12] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: SS ultimate counter strategy? |
Fri, 30 July 2004 11:30 |
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| Hooga |
 | Crewman 1st Class |
Messages: 31
Registered: July 2004 | |
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Playing SS in a current game with a JOAT neighbour, I'm scared...
but that game's gone on for way longer than yours I'm thinking
anyhow. JOAT is relatively good at fighting SS. Chances are you'll have a stronger economy than him. See if you can find out what type of econ settings he has. If you believe him to be HP (many SS are), he won't want an early conflict, and so your best bet is either solidify him as a trusted ally or take him out early.
In before ultra stealth cloak, SS can be spotted by seeding the space and planets he is travelling through with many many many scouts. I also place a scout on every one of anyone's production planets (not just SS), if I can get away with it. Then watch his production for dangerous things like stealth bombers, cruisers, really heavy galleons, BBs etc.
If you can find and keep an IS ally alive (if I was SS and I found an IS, it would be either ally with the IS or kill the IS NOW!) up to tachyon detectors, you're set.
In short: Take out early or ally with, many cheap scouts (as LEit said, fuel mizer, fuel tank, no scanner necessary), good intel, IS ally, go for enemy planets.
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| Re: SS ultimate counter strategy? |
Tue, 03 August 2004 11:31 |
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| Quote: |
Can anybody explain me why?
SS are better on offense than defense(you can see their planets), advantages diminish after Nubs and HPs tend to have to defend until 2450-60, so get to offense, when nubs are near.
Where is the point to play HP SS?
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SS have something more than stealth, something called Robber Baron. At time such beasts come out, minerals start becoming a factor and end game minerals ARE the factor rather than eccon if no AR.
As well the spying bonus can help overcome poor eccon in early days, it can be hard to see if SS is weak in early days.
As well the stealth + bit better speed through minefields gives tactical advantages in spread out ugly slugging border wars that may pop out between developed powers in an endgame.
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| Re: SS ultimate counter strategy? |
Tue, 03 August 2004 16:57 |
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| Hooga |
| Crewman 1st Class |
Messages: 31
Registered: July 2004 | |
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SS costs many race wizard points - HP makes that cheaper. Basically, a HG SS design will be weaker than most other PRTs, as you have less points to work with. Your tech advantages (spy) will be nullified because your techs will be mostly expensive. Your fancy devices advantage will be nullified because in the earlier game you won't have them. The only thing going for you will be 75% cloaking. Once you get to mid to late game, your fancy devices will be less effective than if you were a HP.
In my current game I'm a HP SS with equivilant of 4 cheap tech, I led the game in tech for a long long time. Now that its the BB era, I can build 2 to 3 of my best BBs each planet each turn without worrying about minerals, as they are all provided by my enemies.
The RB and the ultra-stealth cloak are SS's device advantages and they come late(r). In early mid game (turns 20-40) the cloaking an SS can get is not enough to be effective, especially against NAS races. In early game (first 20 turns), it would be unlikely that any offensive would work well.
In short, for me it boils down to making the best use of the race wizard points. HP will be more competitive against other PRTs, HG will be disadvantaged against other PRTs' HGs.
[Updated on: Tue, 03 August 2004 16:59] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: SS ultimate counter strategy? |
Sat, 07 August 2004 08:58 |
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| Kotk | 
 | Commander |
Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003 | |
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People here say they manage to get up into top ranks with HP SS with 4 cheap tech and then even rob so lot that it really matters something?  That first half show that SS player was far too superior for that game. That second half show that it was beginner level game. Period. 
Robber baron is psychological warfare toy. Like a stealth bomber. SS show he got them. Scary.  But it is possible to counter. Everything is. SS is easier and cheaper to counter than competent SD. 
Spread army a bit wider along the border, so you can catch the robbers. Have missile BB-s on each orbit + decent orbitals (can be somewhat countered with freighter chaff). Carry larger piles of minerals farther (hard to counter). Lay lots of minefields have lots of cheap scanners and minesweepers out. Chaff-check suspidous orbits, sweep anything, follow anything you spotted, even if its suicide. (Worried to suicide a cheap sweeper to follow your 8000kt of minerals?) Make sure that next turn it is not suicide.
Sure that fighting SS costs something but it just make things more equal. SS is usually weaker. IS has tachylons, SD has all these minefields, IT see SS gates and JOAT can spot anyone at low cost. If one check the games where they are currently playing then the main resource mongers are usually SD, IT, JOAT and IS not that SS.
SS is fun to play and i have managed to roast a CA with SS but its all so rare. The CA is so banned.  It is the joy of beating bigger guy up with weaker one why i like SS.  Its impossible with HP SS however. By the time HP can do something the CA has ran away into tri-immunity and invulnerability.
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[Updated on: Sat, 07 August 2004 09:06] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: SS ultimate counter strategy? |
Sat, 07 August 2004 10:09 |
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Its impossible with HP SS however.
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In other words it is impossible for Kotk. Just like certain HE race feats were impossible for ccmaster but not mlaub.
Everybody has a race design they are best with and others they suck at. SS is all about suprise and misleading, an HP SS may appear to be a QS SS.
Some with their suprise attacks took over others factories to become ecconomic powers. Others pulled a big backstab late in the game when minerals meant more than resources and stole a bunch of iron. Others used diplomatic blackmail from what learned in early game to prevent big guys from taking out, and managed to stay out of wars while ecconomic powers fought each other.
Every race design has things to fear, SD isn't always so strong. HE has the ultimate minefield chaff, which Alien got to experiance a bit in our Trans game.
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| Re: SS ultimate counter strategy? |
Sat, 07 August 2004 15:57 |
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In trans game I was quite happily helping my SS neighbour as I am HE. Sotek was also his neighbour. Diplomacy won't always work, depends on the situation you are dealt.
Helping the QS eat up the HP SS can mean next on the chopping block while helping the HP can mean you both make it to the end game.
The relationship worked out well, I provided factories (secured and prepared worlds) and he provided techs. By 2460 we are both quite dangerous in own ways, though game may end due to minimal resistance/defence by opponents who seem to want to leave game, and my major competition wanting to be friendly due to his real life getting married soon.
It is the old QS/HP rivalry where each tries take advantage of best era and survive harder era for the style.
Similar to debate between ccmaster and mlaub in the HE forum, there are ways for an endgame power to make it, ccmaster mistook mlaubs HE for a warmonger.
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| Re: SS ultimate counter strategy? |
Sun, 08 August 2004 12:31 |
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Public opinion tends to depend on game setup. In trans it was in my best interests to take a negotiating position that protected my SS neighbour, even if that meant I would get attacked first.
I also had an SD neighbour (bit farther away on other side) who I offered my best early colony plus his choice of other greens factoried up for his help. He arrived waypoint 0 of 2418, and in return built minelayers at my former colony.
I arranged the SS to get a few minelayers from the SD... It was in my best interests to assist the 'weaker' SS as he was less likely to turn on me and as SS very likely to be helpful in tech trading.
[Updated on: Sun, 08 August 2004 12:32] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: SS ultimate counter strategy? |
Sun, 29 August 2004 18:09 |
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| Quote: |
One SS weakness is that their planets are not cloaked. One JOAT strength is that you can scan planets
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Well yes he can see his plantes, but he can't see ships in orbit of that planet. So you will never know if there is one ship or 1000 nubians. SS are marsters in art of pickining battles they can. If you fight them put your scaners effective to 2%
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| Re: SS ultimate counter strategy? |
Sun, 29 August 2004 19:29 |
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Could be he was assuming the SS using the cheapo overcloakers
They *are* nice toys when there are no IS-races present (and if there is one, ally with it or destroy should be the SS's motto! )
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We think in the same way
[Updated on: Sun, 29 August 2004 21:09] Report message to a moderator
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