Home » Primary Racial Traits » IT » Is HP IT possible?
| | | | |
| Re: Is HP IT possible? |
Mon, 10 November 2003 02:30   |
|
 iztok |
 | Commander |
Messages: 1219
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
|
Hi!
EVERY HP race is possible, the main question is if it is survivable. 
I'm just playing an HP IS race, and I can tell you that the main problem with it are minerals. An HP uses quite more germ than a HG race, and those high tech AMP CPS nubs eat it even more. If I wouldn't have been lucky to get an Alien Miner from the very first MT that arrived (and immediately built remotes of 3x4000 mines), and a neighbour player wouldn't have dropped, I wouldn't have been in the first place in that game. With high res output (almost 4k from 100% planet) I'd burn all my germ long ago.
When I've been designing my race, I decided to go with OBRM. Now I know it's not appropriated for HPs. OTOH, if not chosen, my planets would have the res output of a 12/9/16 OBRM HG race. Compared to that race, all what I'd get from being a 15/8/21 HP would be about 50 RW points and ability to remote-mine, but with much slower start.
To resume: no more HP races for me. I'll probably try a -f next.
BR, Iztok
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Is HP IT possible? |
Mon, 10 November 2003 16:57 |
|
| mlaub |
 | Lieutenant |
Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003
Location: MN, USA | |
|
EVERY HP race is possible, the main question is if it is survivable.
The HP's that are the best survivors are usually the ones with a 14+ mine eff with the Germ box checked. Obviously, the higher the better...
This is why a 4% HE is so nasty if you can get it to survive to the late game. At 20+ mine eff, you can devote you entire econ to shipbuilding and not run out of metal for years.
The flipside to this is the +17% HP, 1 in 10-ish single immune. To get proper performance, they sacrifice metal. Using your advantage of early game tech through superior resources means sheer #'s of ships isn't as big a deal. Just the fact that you have a decent fleet, that is higher in tech, usually can get you by. However, if you can't get more minerals by conquest or remote mining, you end up dead quick. You are also more susceptable to random starting planet values.
I usually opt for HG races with a 1 in 4-8 and good factory ramp potential. Bop the min eff as high as I can tolerate, usually 11-12 eff. Getting more planets means more minerals, with less germ dependancy. Makes for a better overall race design, IMO.
-Matt
Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
| | | | | | | |
| Re: Is HP IT possible? |
Thu, 19 February 2004 03:26 |
|
| iztok |
| Commander |
Messages: 1219
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
|
Hi!
| goober wrote on Thu, 19 February 2004 08:19 |
Instead of those 400 RW points the hybrid offers a quicker start and, for me anyway, easier play. If your min/maxing there is no contest: HP beats the hybrid long term. But doesn't the Hybrid beat the HG long term?
|
No. From a 100% planet you get 8% (176 res) more from factories, but you lose 33% (266 res) from pop. Besides, pop is free and its resources come into play when ramping up EVERY planet. Your race would lag 1-2 turns on every planet, if compared to a standard HG race. Well, your race still has 70 RW points to spend. If you'd increase fac eff to 14 you'd get almost the same speed and output as a HG.
| Quote: |
So I guess for me it's more about what compromises I'm prepared to make to suit my style of gameplay.
|
Sure. But you have to consider the game settings also. In a high-competitive universe your hybrid would do worse then a HG. In long term both would do the same. So, I'd still opt for a HG because it's more able to defend itself if an early attacker would try to do something.
BR, Iztok
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Is HP IT possible? |
Thu, 19 February 2004 06:26 |
|
|
|
How about this ?
IT
NRSE, OBRM
1.64-7.04g, temp immune, 4-74MR (1 in 4)
16% PGR
1 per 2500
15/7/21 fact
g box checked
10/3/16 mine
wpns cheap, rest expensive, not start at 3
27K by 2450 fairly easily in a large/normal with 15 AIs.
Resources never dropped below 63% of those from my HG design during those first 50 turns, overtook it in 2458 - and I basically stopped playing after 2440 apart from a bit of G shipping.
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Is HP IT possible? |
Thu, 19 February 2004 07:15 |
|
| iztok |
| Commander |
Messages: 1219
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
|
Hi!
| staz69uk wrote on Thu, 19 February 2004 12:26 |
How about this ?
IT
NRSE, OBRM
1 per 2500
15/7/21 fact g box checked
10/3/16 mine
|
Bad: never ending germ crunch.
In the only game where I played a HP race (OBRM IS 15/8/21g 10/3/21) I've been constantly in germ shortage, despite I got an Alien Miner from the first MT that arrived (and built 3*4000 mines fleets). In the late game I canceled factory building on all new planets (but first 300-400), just to save germ. 've had AMP CPS tech-20-RAM nubians first (and for the long time the only) in that game, BUT boy those ships costed about 150/150/230 of minerals when I built the first, and I was short of germ the whole game! If there wouldn't be an AR ally that has given me quite some germ when I started building those nubs I'd built only about 1200 ('ve had iron and bora for 4000).
A lesson I learned: NO OBRM for HP, and (if possible) mines eff better then 1.
BR, Iztok
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Is HP IT possible? |
Thu, 19 February 2004 09:56 |
|
|
|
| iztok wrote on Thu, 19 February 2004 12:15 |
Bad: never ending germ crunch.
In the only game where I played a HP race (OBRM IS 15/8/21g 10/3/21) I've been constantly in germ shortage, despite I got an Alien Miner from the first MT that arrived (and built 3*4000 mines fleets). In the late game I canceled factory building on all new planets (but first 300-400), just to save germ. 've had AMP CPS tech-20-RAM nubians first (and for the long time the only) in that game, BUT boy those ships costed about 150/150/230 of minerals when I built the first, and I was short of germ the whole game! If there wouldn't be an AR ally that has given me quite some germ when I started building those nubs I'd built only about 1200 ('ve had iron and bora for 4000).
A lesson I learned: NO OBRM for HP, and (if possible) mines eff better then 1.
BR, Iztok
|
Losing OBRM costs me 25% of my economy (10% from lower pop, and the rest from reduced factory settings). If I do that then I may as well use my HG race.
I could reduce the hab range instead, but that defeats the whole idea of this race.
Without remote mining I can still drop colonists on the reds and build normal mines. Besides which, with the high & narrow gravity range I am expecting to inter-settle like mad so there wouldn't be many places for me to remote mine anyway.
I understand what you are saying about mineral crunch, but how much should I let it dictate my race design ?
Has anyone else made an OBRM HP work ?
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Is HP IT possible? |
Thu, 19 February 2004 16:23 |
|
| iztok |
| Commander |
Messages: 1219
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
|
Hi!
| staz69uk wrote on Thu, 19 February 2004 15:56 |
Losing OBRM costs me 25% of my economy (10% from lower pop, and the rest from reduced factory settings). If I do that then I may as well use my HG race.
|
IMO that's the reason why HPs are played so rarely. They got
- only 10% more economy,
- remote miners and
- 60 points to spend,
but
- start much slower,
- are very vulnerable until the mid-game and
- require more MM for sending germ and picking minerals from remotes.
| Quote: |
I understand what you are saying about mineral crunch, but how much should I let it dictate my race design ?
|
They are not a big factor in short game, they are everything at 2550. And HPs aim for long games.
BR, Iztok
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Is HP IT possible? |
Thu, 19 February 2004 18:16 |
|
| icebird |
 | Chief Warrant Officer 3 |
Messages: 178
Registered: September 2003
Location: In LaLa land... | |
|
Just my thoughts.
IT
IFE, TT, NRSE, OBRM, NAS <= Yes, there are 5- one could drop TT, but I love it for all races (I never can get those HGs to work  )
.55 to 1.8, -80 to 80, 30-70 <= This gives about 1 in 13 inital hab, with TT 5% it goes up to 1 in 6
15% PGR <= On the low end, but sacrafices have to come from somewhere
1/2500
15/8/25 fact, box checked
12/3/17 mines <= Will eventualy give more minerals per planet, virtual mine cost reduced to 2.5
Energy, Bio, Elect expensive, Wpns cheap, Con and Prop normal, start at 3 box checked
I am obsessed with HPs using TT- The endgame gets a lot stronger (as if they need it...), and ramping up yellows is easier. I just couldn't find points to afford Bio as normal 
-Peter, Lord of the Big Furry ThingsReport message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Is HP IT possible? |
Fri, 20 February 2004 02:46 |
|
| iztok |
| Commander |
Messages: 1219
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
|
Hi!
| icebird wrote on Fri, 20 February 2004 00:16 |
Just my thoughts.
... snip ...
15/8/25 fact, box checked
12/3/17 mines <= Will eventualy give more minerals per planet, virtual mine cost reduced to 2.5
|
Those mines look good. Will give you 20% more metals, and you'll deplete concentrations slower, thus providing more metal earlier. But do you really need 25 factories? That's A LOT, and uses even more germ: 8250 per 100% planet. I'm affraid only mines will not provide enough germ to ramp all planets. Besides, your race is IT and can afford to gate those heavy remotes everywhere.
| Quote: |
I just couldn't find points to afford Bio as normal
|
If you'd drop fac's operated to 22 you'd get points for bio normal and PGR 16%. Then you may even decide to drop start@3 and buy mine eff 13. That would give you more metals and decrease germ demand by 12%. IMO with such settings the race could become playable with OBRM.
BR, Iztok
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
| |
| Re: Is HP IT possible? |
Wed, 13 July 2005 17:51 |
|
| dethdukk |
| Chief Warrant Officer 3 |
Messages: 200
Registered: June 2005 | |
|
How about starting this thread back up? I have to dissagree with you on the immunity. It's true that germanium is a problem, but if you can get miners out to your planets, or just get a gate up once you have miners near your homeworld or other main planets, you can transport germanium rather quickly. And with 20 big planets instead of 50 little ones, you dont have to supply as much germanium. And as the game progresses, and your worlds grow and finish producing factories, they then become potential exporters of germanium, along with being a sturdy outer base.
If you cannot love, you will always hate, and in hate there is only death.
[img]http://dragcave.net/image/XIJh.gif[/img] <--- is teh dragon!Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Is HP IT possible? |
Wed, 13 July 2005 21:18 |
|
| crr65536 |
| Chief Warrant Officer 3 |
Messages: 180
Registered: June 2005 | |
|
Well, maybe we could get back to freakyboy's hopes for a HP IT, since it was the first one in this thread.
| Quote: |
Basically my aim for the race was...
a) to push out around 3k of resources on a perfect planet.
b) Not to take ORBM
c) To take UR
d) to have as wide hab as possible at 17% growth.
So here goes....
IT
UR, RS
0.52g to 2.48g
-92c to 108c
rad immune
17% growth
1/3 hab
1/2500
14/8/20
10/3/10
all tech expensive, start at 3 box checked.
|
My thoughts: take CE (IT isn't hurt so much as other races and 17% growth doesn't need to move so much as 19% either). NAS also isn't such a disadvantage, especially with IT gate-scans. Maybe also narrow gravity (you start with 7 points of terraforming anyways) and check G box or get better tech. With CE you start with prop 6, and you are rad immune so you have a solid movement strategy in the prop 6 ramscoop.
By adding CE and NAS and narrowing the gravity four clicks and shifting it to the right four clicks (0.62g - 2.48g, hab is reduced to 1/4 which still isn't so bad) you can get cheap weapons and normal construction, or, if you prefer, cheap weapons and 17 mines operated. This sounds better to me.
... or am I just making a fool out of myself  ?
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Is HP IT possible? |
Wed, 13 July 2005 22:23 |
|
| dethdukk |
| Chief Warrant Officer 3 |
Messages: 200
Registered: June 2005 | |
|
I agree with you about the CE and the NAS. The thing I would add is NRSE, and IFE. That makes all your ships start with an alpha drive, and the loss of ram scoops is compensated by the gates and the IT's antimatter generater.
The race I made takes advantage of this:
Dethdukks
IT
IFE, NRSE, CE, ARM, NAS
0.89 - 4.40
-12 - 140
IMMUNE
18% growth
1/5 habitable
1/2500
15/7/24 check
10/3/10
all expensive, start at 3 checked
This race grows quickly because of the 18% growth, and the cost 7 factories. It also expands quickly because is starts with the ability to travel at warp 8 for a great number of turns. Any suggestions on how to change it?
If you cannot love, you will always hate, and in hate there is only death.
[img]http://dragcave.net/image/XIJh.gif[/img] <--- is teh dragon!Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Mon Dec 02 06:08:44 GMT-5 2024
|
Search
Help
Members
Register
Login
Home
Is HP IT possible?
33 / 72%
) yields a whopping 3905 resources, yeehaw!
).
