DaYng1 wrote on Wed, 15 April 2009 02:24

hi, I was wondering if you would consider a 1i 1-4 13/8/20 an hp it. this design gets little under 3k but with rad I, narrow centered t, and max to terraform wide g this race gives good and plentiful p's

Is that with 1/1000 pop eff? Or 1/2500? If the former, where the heck are you getting the points from? If the latter...

Your hab is way too wide, normal 1i habs are 1 in 7 or worse. You should try to get better factories, your res/col is not at all good compared to how much ramp speed you're sacrificing.

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the reason I ask is I am considering using this in a monster game with no accbbs and galaxy clumping. it would be to my advantage to lock down clusters before monsters get big tech or tt bio improvements to hab.

This will be EATEN ALIVE by monsters if 1/2500. You have worse factory ramping by far and hardly better planet resources.

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also the I would decrease ramp up time for terra. I have used this with joat true hp 1i 15/8/21 against quicker races and had sucess. the rad I would also make my planets somewhat less tasty to narrow band high rad ca tt monsters

Little note, immunities are generally bad for HP. And the quicker races must have been napping.

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actually i changed the race around a little bit. I am testbeeding it since i have time before game.

It is as follows

IT IFE ISB NRSE OBRM NAS RS

g .50 TO 2.00 TEMP IMMUNE RAD 60-84 17%PGR

1/2500 14/9/21 11/3/14 EN CON WP CHEAP BIO EL PROP EXP

G BOX NOT CHECKED. START AT 3 NOT CHECKED

I wanted to create a fast expanding IT HP with decent fac settings. This race would have to be played agressive.

Mine econ sucks and g box checked would be nice.

This race sucks. the immunity is no good for hp

[Updated on: Sat, 18 April 2009 14:20]

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Ok here I go, gonna give it a shot.

IT

IFE,OBRM,NAS

Grav .18 - 1.60
Temp -144C - 144
Rad 13 - 61

1 in 4 hab 17%PGR

1/2500 pop eff
10/15 factory eff
9 resources factory cost
21 factories for 10,000 pop
factories cost 1kt less germ not checked

mine eff 10 mines - 12kt
mine cost 3 resources
18 mines per 10,000 pop

energy, electronics, biotechnolgoy - expensive
weapons, propulsion, construction - cheap

Max economy 3905 resources.

explanations

Why IFE but no NRSE with cheap propulsion and 2nd narrowest hab band grav. IFE for fuel mizer to start to grab early planets. No NRSE, you are HP a late game economy...mind as well get some late game toys like the galaxy scoop and with propulsion cheap you can get there fast and with a somewhat narrow grav band propulsion tech is good for your terraforming. I have a habit of right shifting most of my habs since most races will have at least one hab left shifted for more points. With propulsion however this is not as critical and you can left shift if you wish since most races will have grav immune or centered and wide. Plus propulsion cheap gives you something to trade. Remember you are HP you want to make friends early, that means something to trade and attractive hab ranges for intersettlement. Also with cheap propulsion and construction you can feed your other strength...gates another point that can make you friends.

HP with germ box not checked??? You are IT your mineral management should be better and easier than any other race therfore you better able to deal with 4kt germ cost factories. The same reason not to take ISB since with a little planning you can gate any ships you are not using or SFXs to your orbital forts to provide fuel to your border colonies if needed.

Any other questions for my race design are welcome (and I am sure someone has something to say ) and I will try to explain my reasoning.

My mistake about right shifting habs I guess after reading thousands of lines of text in the forum I got that piece of info

[Updated on: Sun, 19 April 2009 11:31]

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DaYng1 wrote on Sun, 19 April 2009 04:05

actually i changed the race around a little bit. I am testbeeding it since i have time before game. It is as follows IT IFE ISB NRSE OBRM NAS RS g .50 TO 2.00 TEMP IMMUNE RAD 60-84 17%PGR 1/2500 14/9/21 11/3/14 EN CON WP CHEAP BIO EL PROP EXP G BOX NOT CHECKED. START AT 3 NOT CHECKED I wanted to create a fast expanding IT HP with decent fac settings. This race would have to be played agressive. Mine econ sucks and g box checked would be nice. This race sucks. the immunity is no good for hp

Indeed you are right

HP should generally take at least 12/3/18 mines, my preference is 14/3/18.

HP should ALWAYS check the G box.

HP should take very few cheap techs - some even go Weap normal.

IFE isn't as useful for IT, so don't take it, as 70-odd points is a huge investment.

Same with ISB - you have gates, so why do you need docks?

HP should only take OBRM if they have live-anywhere hab.

Seriously, the race I posted above will work rather well. Give it a go. Maybe tweak it a bit - the 21 mines is from lack of places to put points, I'm sure you could think of something.

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Combat wrote on Sun, 19 April 2009 08:56

Ok here I go, gonna give it a shot. IT IFE,OBRM,NAS Grav .58 - 4.64 Temp -144C - 144 Rad 40 - 88 1 in 4 hab 17%PGR 1/2500 pop eff 10/14 factory eff 8 resources factory cost 21 factories for 10,000 pop factories cost 1kt less germ not checked mine eff 10 mines - 12kt mine cost 3 resources 18 mines per 10,000 pop energy, electronics, biotechnolgoy - expensive weapons, propulsion, construction - cheap Max economy 3674 resources. explanations Why IFE but no NRSE with cheap propulsion and 2nd narrowest hab band grav. IFE for fuel mizer to start to grab early planets. No NRSE, you are HP a late game economy...mind as well get some late game toys like the galaxy scoop and with propulsion cheap you can get there fast and with a somewhat narrow grav band propulsion tech is good for your terraforming. I have a habit of right shifting most of my habs since most races will have at least one hab left shifted for more points. With propulsion however this is not as critical and you can left shift if you wish since most races will have grav immune or centered and wide. Plus propulsion cheap gives you something to trade. Remember you are HP you want to make friends early, that means something to trade and attractive hab ranges for intersettlement. Also with cheap propulsion and construction you can feed your other strength...gates another point that can make you friends. HP with germ box not checked??? You are IT your mineral management should be better and easier than any other race therfore you better able to deal with 4kt germ cost factories. The same reason not to take ISB since with a little planning you can gate any ships you are not using or SFXs to your orbital forts to provide fuel to your border colonies if needed. Any other questions for my race design are welcome (and I am sure someone has something to say ) and I will try to explain my reasoning.

Ok.

With wide hab, the DLL7 is a good enough engine to start. The Fuel Miser i

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[Updated on: Sun, 19 April 2009 11:45]

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Combat wrote on Mon, 20 April 2009 01:27

I hope you dont use the DLL7 for your early scouts and me personnaly I dont use them on anything but warships untill I have something much better. On early frieghters I have found QJ5 on a privateer hull full of fuel pods works well enough with some attentive fuel managemant and boosters in the absence of the fuel mizer or ramscoops, and scout boosters can be used to check out planets on the way back. Fuel mizer overkill? The sooner your pop arrives at your target planet the sooner they get to work building those factories and the sooner those freighters get back the less you will need to build since you will have fewer frieghters in deep space wasting time and cargo space. You will need to build fewer fuel mizer scouts compared to QJ5 scouts since they will be able to cover ground much quicker and get that hab info. Early savings that are good for a HP. The Galaxy Scoop engine for sure is a luxury item but IFE increases the fuel efficiency of all engines by 15% including the Trans-Galactic Mizer Scoop. Also you will want propulsion 19 sooner or later for any/any gates anyways and Galaxy Scoop is just 1 level away. Having said all that no IFE is indeed applicable as well.

You have forgotten that you have gates. Freighters take 1 year.

The DLL7 is a better engine for freighters than the QJ5.

The TGMS is good enough by itself, you don't need 15% lower consumption.

Any/any gates? Who needs them? Seriously, the any/800 is always good enough.

QJ5 scouts can go just as fast as FM scouts, they just run out of fuel faster

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OBRM bad for a HP race that cant live anywhere? Live anywhere indicates 1 of 2 things TT which is nice but pricey and requires a investment in Biotech both in the race wizard and in game or centered habs that are rather wide...not a way to make friends, why compete with the HP next door for planets when you can just take them for yourself and/or share them with your new ally that has much more compatable habs. Also if you are a HP with hi

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[Updated on: Mon, 20 April 2009 10:37]

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magic9mushroom wrote on Sun, 19 April 2009 23:52

You have forgotten that you have gates. Freighters take 1 year. The DLL7 is a better engine for freighters than the QJ5. The TGMS is good enough by itself, you don't need 15% lower consumption. Any/any gates? Who needs them? Seriously, the any/800 is always good enough. QJ5 scouts can go just as fast as FM scouts, they just run out of fuel faster Ever heard of agreed borders? Quote: I have edited my previous post that my memory was incorrect about right shifting. Ninja editing... yuck. HP is germ-starved no matter what. Why make it worse? If you're germ-starved, then that box is a good investment. End of story. You seem to be confusing ramp speed with capacity. For an HP to be viable you *must* have significantly greater resource capacity than an HG. End of story. Your race does not. Cheap techs are not the way to get tech. Better econ is the way to get tech. I can see a case for cheap or normal con, but cheap prop, you've gotta be kidding me. Seriously, WHY? Quote: What I would like is to find points to put into mineral concentrations without losing the race concept...LSP perhaps? hmmm LSP's ok, but you generally don't *want* leftover points.

*sigh* IFE improves ALL engines by 15% TGFM, QJ5, even your precious DLL7. Its a LRT that enhances the range and mobility of all your ships at all stages of the game.

I dont plan to argue the merits of the QJ5 compared to the DLL7 because the statement I made in that direction is out of context since we are talking about IT, which starts with the DLL7 and is a diffrent animal than my successful experiments with the QJ5 and extensive fuel management. A subject that receives little attention from what I have noticed and one that I plan to write a fair bit about once my experiments are complete.

We are talking about HP right??? For sure any/800 gates are great but any/any give you even more mobility in those large and huge maps that HP's thrive in.

You just made my point, yes QJ5 sc

[Updated on: Tue, 21 April 2009 05:57] by Moderator

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Combat wrote on Tue, 21 April 2009 10:19

*sigh* IFE improves ALL engines by 15% TGFM, QJ5, even your precious DLL7. Its a LRT that enhances the range and mobility of all your ships at all stages of the game.

I'm not an idiot. I know that. However, this is not the reason that people take IFE. The 15% fuel saving is nice, but not worth 79 points (or more if you have 4 or more other LRTs). People take IFE for the Fuel Miser, and if you don't need the Fuel Miser, there are better places to spend your points.

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We are talking about HP right??? For sure any/800 gates are great but any/any give you even more mobility in those large and huge maps that HP's thrive in.

Large and huge maps are rare. And even then, distance overgating doesn't lose ships, only damage them.

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You just made my point, yes QJ5 scouts can travel as fast as FM scouts so in the early years they can cover the same amount of ground but after that you will need to spend more resources to match the amount of scouting the FM scouts are still providing 7, 10 and 15 years down the road. Im talking about effective range not speed.

That's interesting, seeing as my QJ5 scouts in All Quiet got to your homeworld over 600 ly away, and that's further than you'll ever want to colonise...

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Indeed I have heard of agreed borders. Have you heard of -f, QS and HG? After a few years of eyeing those tasty greens on your side of the border...well Im sure you can guess the rest.

Of course I have. How does this affect OBRM? You still want to exploit as much as you can.

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Ninja editing??? As far as I can tell that suggest I am being sneaky. I clearly stated that I had edited a mistake that I had made.

Well, the problem with ninja editing (ie, going back and editing what I responded to) is that to a casual observer it looks as if I misread you and you were right to start with. This is indeed sneaky and the reason why it's not generally done.

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For a HP to be viable it must SURVIVE untill late game, period.

If you sti

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I'mma have a go with an HP IT just for giggles.

IT
CE, OBRM, NAS, RS
G: 1.28g -> 4.40g
T: -136C -> 184C
R: Imm
16% PGR
(1 in 4 with an imm and eventually covers all Temp)
15/8/21/4g facs
12/3/18 mines
W cheap
All else exp, start@3

Horrible if you don't like CE. Weak mines. 4g facs.

Looks challenging to me :)

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Soobie wrote on Tue, 10 November 2009 05:02

I'mma have a go with an HP IT just for giggles. IT CE, OBRM, NAS, RS G: 1.28g -> 4.40g T: -136C -> 184C R: Imm 16% PGR (1 in 4 with an imm and eventually covers all Temp) 15/8/21/4g facs 12/3/18 mines W cheap All else exp, start@3 Horrible if you don't like CE. Weak mines. 4g facs. Looks challenging to me :)

Oh how I hate CE.

Not sure I would take the temp band that far to the edge. You really only need to be 16 clicks from an edge. Well, it would be a while to get the +15 terra. I know you would get faster terra earlier, and a better green overall, but I think it might be better to have some more "stuff"...

Temp: -136 --> 136 gives you 58 points, or cost 3 germ factories

I have found that IT's in general can get away with more hab tricks, since once the planet goes green, you can instantly shove max peeps on it via the gates. Then, when you finish terra and some initial factory mines, you can gate the majority of the pop away to another "just green" world to rinse and repeat.

-Matt

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mlaub wrote on Wed, 11 November 2009 16:07

Oh how I hate CE. Not sure I would take the temp band that far to the edge. You really only need to be 16 clicks from an edge. Well, it would be a while to get the +15 terra. I know you would get faster terra earlier, and a better green overall, but I think it might be better to have some more "stuff"... Temp: -136 --> 136 gives you 58 points, or cost 3 germ factories I have found that IT's in general can get away with more hab tricks, since once the planet goes green, you can instantly shove max peeps on it via the gates. Then, when you finish terra and some initial factory mines, you can gate the majority of the pop away to another "just green" world to rinse and repeat. -Matt

Yah ... or gives you the points to almost drop CE or possibly increase PGR to 17% with a tiny bit of fiddling?

Funny though ... I was thinking it would perform better by dropping mines to 12/3/17 and widening the temp to -136C to 200C (fully edged) and possibly taking grav to 1.24g to 4.16g, which is a click off 1in3 hab on the wide. That improves the hab to virtually a (weak) 1in3 hab with an imm (could actually right-shift the grav a few clicks and left shift the temp 1 click and it says its 1in3). I like that the fully-edged temp gives better starting greens, so I'm tipping you only need to terra on the narrow for the whole early to mid game, which is when HP is weakest ... and you don't want to be divererting resources to that kind of stuff (terra) if you can help it. Whatevs. It's all just a bit of fun and theory.

Anyway, ultimately the 1in3 non-imm gets more planets, but I think I'd prefer a solid 1in4 1-imm hab to a 1in3 non-imm hab. But that's just me

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