Home » Primary Racial Traits » SS » -f SS
| -f SS |
Sun, 19 October 2003 10:03  |
|
 freakyboy |
 | Lieutenant |
Messages: 583
Registered: November 2002
Location: Where the clowns can't re... | |
|
So... I'm in a game of stars (shock) and the subject of a -f SS race came up.
Basically a particular player who is self proclaimed mathematically inept said the following about a -f SS...
"I don't think SS is a great choice for -f designs"
I think that's wrong myself. For SS races I've always though -f or HP, never HG.
What about you guys? In the Lesser traits game it was a -f SS race that came first (or second) and handled very well.
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
| | | |
| Re: -f SS |
Sun, 19 October 2003 15:53  |
|
| zoid |
 | Ensign |
Messages: 348
Registered: December 2002
Location: Murray, KY - USA | |
|
| freakyboy wrote on Sun, 19 October 2003 07:03 |
Basically a particular player who is self proclaimed mathematically inept said the following about a -f SS...
"I don't think SS is a great choice for -f designs"
|
That would be me, of course.  And as with most things I dare to say (with particular regard to the game of Stars), it may very well be proven false by my betters. But remember, I DID say "I THINK" and "not great" (in other words), expressing only my personal opinion that the SS prt is not the best choice for -f design, rather than stating that it's unworkable as a matter of fact.
I've made a few attempts at a -f SS race in duels against Micha. Micha is a very good player and could easily have played aggressively to destroy me in short order, but he didn't. Micha knew I was testing races and I believe he was playing more of a passive-defense role, just giving me a chance to try a new design against an intelligent player.
My personal experience with the race designs I tried led me to believe that the SS is a poor platform for -f economy in part because of the expensive PRT, but also because the advantages gained by the PRT are not particularly helpful in the earliest critical stage.
I'm not big on -f designs and maybe it's simply a matter of not designing and/or playing them competently. I acknowledge my skill limitations (especially with regard to -f design) render the worth of my own opinions dubious, at best. I do know that it's all about rapid expansion and early conquest to exploit the developmental stage and weakness of other races; the -f SS designs I tried all proved too slow out of the gate to inflict sufficient early harm to the enemy to seal his doom. There were just too few resources and too many places for those resources to go. I spent all my resources on freighters and terraforming to get the economical base I needed to produce the warships, then the research to get the crucial early technologies to make warships, and never really achieved the economical b
...
I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I'M OFTEN PROVEN WRONG. TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU READ MY POSTS.
Math?  Ummm, sure!  I do FREESTYLE math.Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
| | |
| Re: -f SS |
Mon, 20 October 2003 02:28 |
|
| iztok |
 | Commander |
Messages: 1219
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
|
Hi!
I'd agree a SS would be good -f race, if race wizard wouldn't demand so many points for it and it's toys wouldn't be so expensive.
Because you have to strike early, you can hardly afford buying Robber Barron scanner (IMO the best toy to cripple your opponent).
In the mid-game, when you can afford it, an IS can also afford to buy Tachyon Detector. A few FFs/Galleons with TDs and Eagle Eye scanners on key planets would quite ruin your attack capability. It doesn't get any better in late game. Well, you need an IS for that, but I've met quite more ISs than SSs in games where I played, and 've seen those TDs traded among many races.
To conclude: SS is a fun race to play, but if I'd like to win I wouldn't take it.
BR, Iztok
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: -f SS |
Wed, 22 October 2003 08:25 |
|
| Micha | 
| |
Messages: 2343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
|
| zoid wrote on Sun, 19 October 2003 21:53 |
I've made a few attempts at a -f SS race in duels against Micha. Micha is a very good player and could easily have played aggressively to destroy me in short order, but he didn't. Micha knew I was testing races and I believe he was playing more of a passive-defense role, just giving me a chance to try a new design against an intelligent player.
|
True, in that game I played my HG SD very relaxed, not spreading out aggressively, just letting Zoid try out his design. Of course I did lay minefields (why else play SD  ).
| Quote: |
Micha, since you played the other side I welcome your input, whether it's support for my argument, a listing of failures on my part that may have made a difference, or other anomalies that could have played a role. I also welcome the input of others who have either tried a -f SS against another player, or one who has played against such a race.
|
Looking at the files I see our HWs were 545ly apart (small dense univ), guess that gave both of us enough room to expand and fill up our "own" space before going after the other his planets. The first time I discovered a planet close to my space was 2428 and in 2430 you tried to cross the 250ly border around my HW. My minefields stopped you and killed your med freighters IIRC and that's also the year started I building my own first armed ships, a few bazooka FFs (only 35 of them build by 2445 when the game ended, I never needed more or any other armed ship).
You send in a few shadow shield yak FFs that got easily killed by either my minefields or my FFs. You never sent them in larger numbers, no horde. By far not aggressive enough, later you said you didn't have the resources for more ships since you needed to spend all in terraforming.
The cloaking didn't help you much I think, I had my minefields and NAS, also since I knew I was fighting an SS I did more elec research than usual, getting better scanners.
Maybe it comes down to that we started too far apart, my 1 in 4 hab gave me a lot of
...
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
| | |
| Re: -f SS |
Fri, 13 February 2004 11:24 |
|
| Kotk | 
| Commander |
Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003 | |
|
Against AI it is easy to get 10 above 80% planets early. With humans its doable if you got territories of 30-40 planets. Thats bit large game to use -f in.
The tech 7/8/5/5/5/3 you indicated is rather strange for -f. Any -f should take LF as first thing (cheap cargo & good fuel + well miniaturized docks) and that means construction 8.
I would take construction 8 by ~2411.
[Updated on: Fri, 13 February 2004 11:25] Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: -f SS |
Fri, 13 February 2004 11:54 |
|
| goober |
 | Chief Warrant Officer 3 |
Messages: 175
Registered: December 2003
Location: +10 | |
|
Those -f SS numbers are from a duel against a WM.
6 * approx 70% planets, 1 50%, 1 40% and 1 35% + HW ofc.
Played a similar -f SS in a duel against a CA. Similar numbers. Well better actually.
I may be missing a trick with the LF. I'll have to check it out. But I seem to be able to keep up with MF's. In fact if your using a 70% world as a breeder that has a max 800k pop then you get an MF's amount of pop each turn at 25% capacity ... perfect.
But weapons and shields are important if you intend kicking ass quickly.
Goober.
Addition: 25-30 planets only needed for my race to find 10 planets ...
[Updated on: Fri, 13 February 2004 11:56] Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
| | |
| Re: -f SS |
Sat, 21 February 2004 22:57 |
|
| mcvos |
 | Crewman 3rd Class |
Messages: 7
Registered: September 2003
Location: Netherland | |
|
| joseph wrote on Sun, 15 February 2004 19:33 |
| Quote: |
In usual PBM the spy bonus is giving you about 15% of what you spend yourself.
|
While in a normal? game (as opposed to a Duel) people will trade tech so your Spy return is less.
|
You also trade tech, so you spend less on research, and the ratio can remain 15%.
But to get back to the subject of -f SS, I'm currently playing one in a game, and I'm doing quite well. I'm not in the lead scorewise, but I'm not falling behind either. I'm 4th of 10 players, two of which are now dead (and I had a hand in both of those kills).
I think the main reason why I'm doing well, is diplomacy, though. I didn't attack early enough, and when a real war came, I wasn't ready for it, and even lost a couple of planets at first. By now it's 2477, and I've taken them back with interest. It's a surprisingly long haul for a -f race. I do own a vast territory, and although I don't even own that much more planets than one ally, my values are a lot higher. I grabbed this territory by blatant two-faced opportunism and hoping someone would make the mistake of provoking an early war with a -f, which didn't happen. And when it did, I wasn't ready for my enemy's vast economic power (as hinted at above).
I'm very lucky that there are no ISs in this game. I was very late in reaching Electronics 12 (but was quick with Weapons and Const because of trades), and I still don't have the Robber Baron (due to Slow Tech).
No spectacular results, as you can see, but it is playable. And I haven't even tapped into my biggest SS advantages yet. My economy is better than I dared to hope, and I haven't even begun to use my vast warfighting abilities and skills. It's been pretty straightforward planet bashing and not worrying about cloaking, so far. I'm sure that will change.
I think I can win, although I'll have to work really hard to get there. I will.
mcv.
...
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
| |
| Re: -f SS |
Tue, 12 October 2021 06:01 |
|
| Robert |
 | Lt. Junior Grade |
Messages: 393
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany | |
|
I am currently playing in a game with 2 very successfull -f SS races and would like to share some thoughts...
-f means you got more cheap tech-levels than usual, which is especially great under some circumstances, for example if no tech trade is allowed and everyone needs to research everything on his own, and even more if there are no MT giving tech away which also helps.
One more thing... as -f you usually have a lot more planets than the enemy. A common tactics of mine is, when being attacked, you dont defend but instead start killing the enemy planets. Being SS and -f means you can do much more harm to him than he is able to do to you. This does not make you win, but it makes the other guy not win
And one last thing: if the game is a "no ally game" then the IS will not be able to trade their tachyons, which is good for SS in general... not only -f.
Oh and even one more thing:
-f SS use to have good el-tech early because they want that baron scanner. This means they will have battle-nexi very early. this means that there is a BB time where -f SS tend to have those "shoot first" BBs much earlier than enybody else, and the can afford to build those 7 nexi BBs because they have plenty of G which most factory builders dont. So... in games where there are not enough plantes that people can research nubians quickly, a -f SS has a long long time within the BB area with a nice advantage of those "shooting first and you cant counter it" BBs.
2b v !2b -> ?Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: -f SS |
Sun, 17 October 2021 02:50 |
|
| magic9mushroom |
| Commander |
Messages: 1369
Registered: May 2008 | |
|
Robert wrote on Tue, 12 October 2021 21:01this means that there is a BB time where -f SS tend to have those "shoot first" BBs much earlier than enybody else, and the can afford to build those 7 nexi BBs because they have plenty of G which most factory builders dont.
6 Nexi is better IMO. Still out-inits 7 BSC, but gives you a free slot for something and doesn't risk out-initting your chaff-shredders (since chaff-shredders must have speed 2.25, so they can't use 7 Nexi, and one extra Nexus brings Upsilons or Armageddons to equal init with Mega Disruptors).
If your opponents are close to Nexi themselves, or are WM, there's obviously the risk of being out-initted which weighs against that, but otherwise the design seems more solid.
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Fri Dec 13 00:51:07 GMT-5 2024
|
Search
Help
Members
Register
Login
Home
