gible wrote on Tue, 16 August 2011 22:44

The catch is they don't generally have any pop loaded.

And that's prolly why you haven't noticed this bug in the many years playing It should be pretty easy to spot

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gible wrote on Wed, 17 August 2011 00:49

they can see planet hopping ships (100% of the time unlike penscans), can do limited planet scanning, can be used to ping stuff

Not if they were dismantled to colonize. This bug could hurt your cheap anti-hoppers defense a lot.

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magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 10:48

There are legitimate reasons to send non-colonisers with Colonise orders,

None of them would carry pop around, would they?

Quote:

and it's not easy to notice the bug's use since it's an eco exploit and not a military one.

Ship mass would give them away, particularly if used by ARs with dying colonists en route.

While not every race could be closely monitored near its core worlds, I'm pretty sure anything dodgy going on near the borders would be noticed quickly.

Quote:

the use of this bug would make ARs far more viable, so I'd suggest games encouraging ARs allow it.

ARs weak spot is "Kill Starbase" orders, not econ. AR is the perfect -f race as it is.

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m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 05:37

magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 10:48 There are legitimate reasons to send non-colonisers with Colonise orders, None of them would carry pop around, would they?

Probably only some of the initial ships like the Swashbuckler. But as an initial ship, there's no opportunity for it to have the hidden 'coloniser' capability.

Cheers,
Void

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m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 07:37

Quote: the use of this bug would make ARs far more viable, so I'd suggest games encouraging ARs allow it. ARs weak spot is "Kill Starbase" orders, not econ. AR is the perfect -f race as it is.

But AR often struggles with minerals early on. Magic was probably suggesting that AR would be able to build lots more colonizers without the mineral-expensive orbital construction modules in early years.

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BlueTurbit wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 17:27

But AR often struggles with minerals early on.

I'm often struggling with minerals early on, regardless of PRT. Too many stars, never enough ships...

Quote:

AR would be able to build lots more colonizers without the mineral-expensive orbital construction modules in early years.

Of course they would. As would most everyone else. The question is: do we want or need that?

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joseph wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 18:04

I was an AR and built a number of colony ships without colonisers AND they carried pop (used for boosters and transports)

And did they target uninhabited worlds? With Colonise orders?

Quote:

A 3i AR will probably use this kind of ship (although normally with a fuel pod unless fuel pods are banned)

This bug only works if you leave the used-to-have-a-col-module slot empty.

Quote:

It would be a bit hard to check to see if they were exploiting this unless they were totally blatant.

Indeed. Near a race's core worlds it wouldn't be easy to keep tabs on what was going on. But farther out, where neighbors were likely to be actively scanning everything, and even trying to grab it for themselves, an alien colony popping out of nowhere would surely be noticed.

Like many other bugs/exploits, actually.

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m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 14:01

BlueTurbit wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 17:27 But AR often struggles with minerals early on. I'm often struggling with minerals early on, regardless of PRT.

Not as much as AR races.
"1) What AR lacks in early and mid game is iron: first for ships, then for bases and more ships, and lastly for remote miners. What AR has in excess after ultras are built is germ."

Quote:

Too many stars, never enough ships...

Typical AR situation.

Quote:

AR would be able to build lots more colonizers without the mineral-expensive orbital construction modules in early years.

Quote:

Of course they would. As would most everyone else.

Not as much as AR races.
"1) What AR lacks in early and mid game is iron: first for ships, then for bases and more ships, and lastly for remote miners. What AR has in excess after ultras are built is germ."

Quote:

The question is: do we want or need that?

I don't. But I usually don't play AR, and I'm not the one suggesting AR could use a boost. Perhaps ask your partner, Forceuser, about that.

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BlueTurbit wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 22:14

I usually don't play AR, and I'm not the one suggesting AR could use a boost. Perhaps ask your partner, Forceuser, about that.

Nope, he doesn't need that kind of boost either.

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joseph wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 18:04

I was an AR and built a number of colony ships without colonisers AND they carried pop (used for boosters and transports)

m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 20:10

And did they target uninhabited worlds? With Colonise orders?

No they didnt - because I was not aware of the bug AND because it would not have worked because I made them from scratch rather than copying my inital coloniser and removing the module.

However IF anyone ever plays in a similar game, its a valid and useful ship design AND the host will only be able to spot you cheating if s/he looks at a turn and there are ships heading for empty worlds with colonise orders.

[Updated on: Thu, 25 August 2011 07:04]

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joseph wrote on Thu, 25 August 2011 13:02

it would not have worked because I made them from scratch rather than copying my inital coloniser and removing the module.

I guess then that you use Colonizer hulls with only engines and no fuel or cargo pod as boosters and freighters? Or that was just for that particular game?

Also, does this bug work only when copying the initial designs or copying any other colonizer design would also trigger it?

Quote:

the host will only be able to spot you cheating if s/he looks at a turn and there are ships heading for empty worlds with colonise orders.

Anyone with half-decent eyes will spot these too and could tip the Host to the problem.

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m.a@stars wrote on Thu, 25 August 2011 21:44

Anyone with half-decent eyes will spot these too and could tip the Host to the problem.

Presumably by "half-decent eyes" you mean WM?

Also, HE at least have a legit reason to be flying empty colonisers around.

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magic9mushroom wrote on Thu, 25 August 2011 14:32

Presumably by "half-decent eyes" you mean WM?

Or NAS. Or a decent spy network. And a calculator for comparing shipdesign weights. And a penchant for noticing when a non-standard colonizer keeps zipping around instead of just disappearing into a new colony.

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[Updated on: Thu, 25 August 2011 15:40]

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magic9mushroom wrote on Fri, 26 August 2011 00:32

[email m.a@stars[/email] wrote on Thu, 25 August 2011 21:44]Anyone with half-decent eyes will spot these too and could tip the Host to the problem. Presumably by "half-decent eyes" you mean WM? Also, HE at least have a legit reason to be flying empty colonisers around.

Actually...scrap everything I said about using minicols for that...they always have fuel tanks. don't know what I was thinking.

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gible wrote on Fri, 26 August 2011 08:53

magic9mushroom wrote on Fri, 26 August 2011 00:32 [email m.a@stars[/email] wrote on Thu, 25 August 2011 21:44]Anyone with half-decent eyes will spot these too and could tip the Host to the problem. Presumably by "half-decent eyes" you mean WM? Also, HE at least have a legit reason to be flying empty colonisers around. Actually...scrap everything I said about using minicols for that...they always have fuel tanks. don't know what I was thinking.

Not always. The minicol hull is SO cheap that it's actually not much more expensive to use empty minicols, and they scoop more and chaffsweep more.

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goober wrote on Mon, 15 August 2011 23:13

... but some folks out there, myself included at times, can be very fussy about such details.

and ninjas

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[Updated on: Sat, 17 September 2011 06:03]

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