Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » New Game Announcements » New game - Incommodum
| New game - Incommodum |
Fri, 02 April 2010 15:02  |
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 iojho |
 | Officer Cadet 4th Year |
Messages: 280
Registered: October 2006
Location: EPBA | |
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Incommodum is going to be a game of long lines of supply, shortages of fuel and fog of war.
There will be only 4 players. No diplomacy! No alliances! No trade! Everyone plays on its own! Players are obliged to set each other to ‘enemy’ and battle orders to attack ‘everyone’.
There can be only 1 winner declared by unanimous voting of active players.
I would like to keep fast pace. Turns would be played as follows:
2401 – 2425 -> M-T-W-T-F-S-S at 3:00 p.m. GMT
2426 – 2450 -> M-W-F-S-S at 3:00 p.m. GMT
2451 – the end -> T-T-S-S at 3:00 p.m. GMT
Please consider that we are going to play at weekends and during summer -> you are going on vacation, take stars! with you or find substitute player.
I am looking for 3 players -> host (me) plays. Advanced players are invited.
Universe will be Small and Sparse which is 96 planets!
Other game settings are as follows:
- Distant players position
- AccBBS
- No random events
Races banned: CA, JoaT, HE, AR, PP, IT
Race restrictions:
- no ISB
- no IFE
- no Ram Scoop Engines
- no NAS
- no gates
- no pen-scanners (except at HWs)
- no planetary scanners (except at HWs)
- no fuel pods, no fuel transports, no SFX
- no LF or Super Freighters
Races will be checked by Per.
Standard cheat disclaimer, which means that the following cheats are allowed:
- chaff
- split fleet dodge
The game will be played at SAH. I would like to start ASAP.
Please read about similar game played year ago -> „Lines of supply / Fog of war” in section Game Stories at HWF. For instance, I recommend taking propulsion cheap.
iojho ( at ) aim ( dot ) com
[Mod edit: changed from Medium to small and 216 to 96 planets]
[Updated on: Sat, 17 April 2010 10:05] by Moderator
"Every person speculates on creating a new need in another, so as to drive him to fresh sacrifice, to place him in a new dependence and to seduce him into a new mode of enjoyment and therefore economic ruin."
Karl Marx,1844Report message to a moderator
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| Re: New game - Incommodum |
Sun, 04 April 2010 13:44  |
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You might want to ban PP as well - packet penscans might be contrary to your efforts in the rules to limit pen scans.
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| Re: New game - Incommodum |
Sun, 04 April 2010 16:09 |
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| perrindom wrote on Mon, 05 April 2010 04:47 |
Consider banning or penalizing IT.
They have a big logistics advantage with starting techs in prop and con. Perhaps letting them taking prop and con medium would level it out?
You probably would want to ban their Anti-matter Generator.
Q: what if one conquer another HW, may they rebuild the planetary scanner?
/Per
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On the other hand, they lose their gates, and thus their ability to gate around colonists - the usual justification for paying the premium to buy this PRT. Presumably they would have to remove the starting gate on the first turn too, since gates are forbidden, but the host should clarify that.
The high starting con and prop is nice, but it's really not hard to get to these tech levels early, if you're willing to delay factory building... I just ran a quick test, and I was able to start my population export with priv+DLL7, without needing IT to do it. AD8 is a bit nicer, but still not far off. 
IT would start a lot more smoothly, but with medium distant and only four races, there isn't as much pressure to get a super fast start.
The antimatter generator needs to be out of the game though... As does the super fuel tank (implied by fuel tank being banned, but it's good to check...) If the antimatter generator was in the game, I think choosing IT would become almost mandatory
To be honest, I think I'd rather do the research, and have a PRT which can actually make use of it's main abilities.
[Updated on: Sun, 04 April 2010 16:11] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: New game - Incommodum |
Sun, 04 April 2010 16:23 |
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What a pity I haven't got enough time to play... the last game of Linie of Sight in 2008 was quite a thrill.
O well, have fun.
| iojho wrote on Fri, 02 April 2010 21:02 |
Races banned: CA, JoaT, HE, AR
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Why banning HE?
I guess AR is banned due to their inbuilt planetary pen-scanners but then again AR is weak and suffers horribly by the inability to use gates to protect their precious bases.
[Updated on: Sun, 04 April 2010 16:28] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: New game - Incommodum |
Sun, 04 April 2010 19:07 |
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| Floater wrote on Sun, 04 April 2010 23:23 |
"My God... It's full of..." restrictions
Maybe it would be better to say "what is allowed"
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Hi Floater, the original idea can be read in
* Line of Supply / Fog of War II
* or Line of Supply / Fog of War
The idea is to make logistics indeed a task to rekon with.
Actually I would even add more restrictions to make it really interesting:
* no large or super freighters
* no ship scanners above elec 1 (=rhino is the best)
In the first game most were using large freighters as "alternative fuel ship". Although SDs had some very interesting design ideas, too.
[Updated on: Sun, 04 April 2010 19:07] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: New game - Incommodum |
Sun, 04 April 2010 20:51 |
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| Altruist wrote on Mon, 05 April 2010 06:23 |
What a pity I haven't got enough time to play... the last game of Linie of Sight in 2008 was quite a thrill.
O well, have fun.
| iojho wrote on Fri, 02 April 2010 21:02 |
Races banned: CA, JoaT, HE, AR
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Why banning HE?
I guess AR is banned due to their inbuilt planetary pen-scanners but then again AR is weak and suffers horribly by the inability to use gates to protect their precious bases.
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Guessing HE is banned because they would be seriously overpowered without their 'no gates' penalty. 3i versions would be barely effected by the 'supply' issues either, with the shortest possible distances between worlds. They'd suffer a little from the loss of the Settler's Delight engine (it's a scoop, technically, right?) ... Still. A penalty would make more sense than banning outright. Perhaps it would be sufficient to simply say 'HE must have PGR 10%(20%) or above.', so they can't go 3i (and then they'd suffer horribly from the expense of having to try to ship pop early without the delight...)
I think you're guessing right that AR is banned for the penscans... AR is not a weak PRT though... Not having gates would hurt them a lot, as you say (not being able to gate miners around would hurt a lot.)
Who Needs Super Stealth was a game played with more extreme sensor restrictions. You were allowed one planetary scanner (if you lost your HW, you could build a new one somewhere else) and that was it... Battle Scanner only. No ranged scans at all. It was a fun game
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| Re: New game - Incommodum |
Mon, 05 April 2010 02:52 |
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Hi
About race’s advantages. Imho, SS will have advantage in the game with limited scanner abilities. Just as HE have it in the game with “no gates” rule.
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| Re: New game - Incommodum |
Tue, 06 April 2010 13:01 |
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Could you clarify how the rules apply to IT. IT starts the game with two gates, and two planetary scanners. Do they have to remove these gates? What about the second scanner (it can be removed by abandoning then recolonising the world.)
Also can you confirm if IT's antimatter generator part is permitted.
EDIT: you've chosen to ban LF and SF. Rogue and Galleon are still permitted though, correct? They're a bit more expensive, but usable
[Updated on: Tue, 06 April 2010 13:04] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: New game - Incommodum |
Tue, 06 April 2010 13:20 |
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| Dashiva wrote on Mon, 05 April 2010 16:52 |
Hi
About race’s advantages. Imho, SS will have advantage in the game with limited scanner abilities. Just as HE have it in the game with “no gates” rule.
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On the other hand, they also lose access to two of their best features - the early penscans of the Chameleon Scanner, and the late game awesome that is the Robber Baron (also a penscanner, so is unavailable.)
With NAS prohibited, anyone can cloak with a modest investment (SS even cheaper than usual, of course,) so I think that fact neither strengthens nor weakens SS.
The Rogue hull could be very powerful for them though, with double the capacity and triple the fuel of the privateer hull.
[Updated on: Tue, 06 April 2010 13:21] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: New game - Incommodum |
Tue, 06 April 2010 13:27 |
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| iojho |
| Officer Cadet 4th Year |
Messages: 280
Registered: October 2006
Location: EPBA | |
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As to IT, gates are forbidden and thus IT has to dismantle them at first year. Scanners at HWs (even at semi HW) are permitted, so there is no need to pick up colonists.
Antimatter generators... as long as you asking about it I am becoming convinvced to ban this as well. However, I hesitate as antimatter generators would be equivalent for no gates for IT, which is in fact very expensive race. IMO, antimatter generators are very expensive and therefore inpractical and they should not unbalance the game. Taking IT for antimatter generators IMO is not worth, but if someone would like to take it, let he does. Recapping, antimatter generators are allowed, unless someone here will convince me to ban them as well
Rouge and Galleons and Meta-morphs, MFs, PVTs are allowed
iojho
[Updated on: Tue, 06 April 2010 13:29]
"Every person speculates on creating a new need in another, so as to drive him to fresh sacrifice, to place him in a new dependence and to seduce him into a new mode of enjoyment and therefore economic ruin."
Karl Marx,1844Report message to a moderator
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| Re: New game - Incommodum |
Tue, 06 April 2010 14:29 |
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Antimatter generator is a cheap part, cost is 10r 8i 3b 3g before miniturisation.
A galleon with 10 antimatter generators would start at about 200 resources (less with miniturisation, more with big engines) and would carry a total of 4500mg of fuel, generating 500mg per turn. I wouldn't call that expensive, especially when you consider it's a good freighter too. That's as effecient as a SFX as a refueler (but swapping the repair ability for cargo carrying)
The real nice thing about this part, is you can put them on unused slots on many things. For example, b-17 bomber can carry one.
As you say, IT is an expensive PRT. Perhaps it's in-theme for IT to have access to this part. After all, Interstellar Traveller IS supposed to be more mobile than other races, and most of the others (except IS) do all have some unique ship type with lots of fuel (Rogue, SML, BC+DN), so most races can alleviate their fuel problems at some point in the game.
[Updated on: Tue, 06 April 2010 14:32] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: New game - Incommodum |
Thu, 08 April 2010 12:14 |
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| from announcement |
Races banned: CA, JoaT, HE, AR, PP
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| iojho wrote on Thu, 08 April 2010 08:44 |
so IT is banned as well.
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Not much of a choice left... as a matter of fact 4 PRTs to choose from:
* super-stealth
* WM
* IS
* SD
A quite unusual mix of PRTs which might give the game a very specific flavour. Actually this might lead rather to quite a fun game.
I'd allow AR. Usually there are no games in which AR has a chance without allies and no bigger than medium. But in this scenario they for once have a fair chance and might add an interesting challenge.
If Per doesn't won't to host and you are looking for a 3rd-party-host, I'd offer to host. If the start of the game is delayed until end of May, I'd rather play myself in it, though.
[Updated on: Thu, 08 April 2010 12:15] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: New game - Incommodum |
Fri, 09 April 2010 11:08 |
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| iztok wrote on Fri, 09 April 2010 15:40 |
Hi!
Man you've "cooked" a nasty game.  Even allowed PRTa are cripled:
- SS with no pen scanneers ==> no Robber Barron,
- IS without orgy, or a terribly expensive one.
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Super-Stealth will be very dangerous in a medium, sparse galaxy without gates... or forcing everybody to have heaps of scanner-ships around. And their rogues will be the best freighter and fuel pod in the game. Not having their special scanners, well, a disadvantage one can should be able to live with.
IS: medium, sparse, no fuel mizer... ideal to take full advantage of their pop-breeding ability. No LF or SF is a disadvantage most PRTs have to cope with.
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About the only race I see viable here is SD.
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See above.
Additionally WM is just fine, too.
So, lots of talking and discussing. Everybody seems quite excited about the strange unusual settings which is a challenge i itself.
But... any takers yet?
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| Re: New game - Incommodum |
Fri, 09 April 2010 16:16 |
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| iztok |
 | Commander |
Messages: 1219
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
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Hi!
| Altruist wrote on Fri, 09 April 2010 17:08 |
And their rogues will be the best freighter and fuel pod in the game.
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But SD already starts with MML hull, and SS needs to tech-up to Rougue.
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Additionally WM is just fine, too.
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IMO not. Game settings will give long, slow, dragged-out game, where defending will be significantly easier than attacking. WM doesn't excell at defense. Hovewer WM would probably get enough time to get to DNs.  OTOH with 54 planets per player this game will be finished with Nubs.
| Quote: |
But... any takers yet?
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To quote Floater:
"My God... It's full of..." restrictions
Too full for my taste.
BR, Iztok
[Updated on: Fri, 09 April 2010 16:19] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: New game - Incommodum |
Sat, 10 April 2010 03:46 |
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| iojho |
| Officer Cadet 4th Year |
Messages: 280
Registered: October 2006
Location: EPBA | |
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Iztok, quite contrary, taking experience from LoS/FoW game, this is going to be very, very aggressive game. I would say, do not think about defence in this game. Take into consideration that there are no decent scanners. This makes you do not know where your enemy can hit you. SS for instance will be very nasty even without robber barons. I would say SS will be the best choice. However, no NAS means every PRT can create invisible ships. No gates means you cannot react immediately in case of enemy’s attack. No ISB means that you can put up only SB, so your opponent does not need a lot of chaff. All you can do is to hit him wherever so that he took greater damage than you. To defend yourself, good idea is to cut enemy’s fleet from supply.
With regard to moving fleets and PITA, please do not exaggerate, all you need to do is to take decent engine ASAP and while attacking you take enough prop and minerals to establish base ASAP where your ships can refuel. Than you do again with another planet, at the same time pumping and pumping new resources into the front line. And this is also opportunity for defender, i.e. to cut lines of supply. This makes this game unique though.
4 players in this game are in order to ensure everyone its corner in universe. In LoS/FoW game players who started in the centre had the worst place. They were exposed on risk of being attacked from 3-4 sides. And having no gates you cannot do a lot to defend yourself in this case. Medium sparse, which means 54 planets, gives a player possibility to sacrifice some part of its territory and to have time to undertake counteraction. On the other hand, 54 planets in spares means that lines of supply are very long and players cannot put their activity on HW.
IMO, the conditions of the game ensure that there can be a lot of turning points. The game will not be finished as a result of only 1 action. The winner will be the player of the best skills. And I would not bother of narrow PRT selection.
iojho
"Every person speculates on creating a new need in another, so as to drive him to fresh sacrifice, to place him in a new dependence and to seduce him into a new mode of enjoyment and therefore economic ruin."
Karl Marx,1844Report message to a moderator
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| Re: New game - Incommodum |
Sat, 10 April 2010 09:08 |
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| iztok |
| Commander |
Messages: 1219
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
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Hi!
iojho, most of your writing is valid, but for a game with significantly shorter distances. This game will be played across 1200 YL universe. That means average distance from your core planets to the border will be 400+ LY. With best engine that's 4 turns.
With 54 planets per player will the economies at 2460 be in 30k range. That means in those 4 turns you need to move your ship to the front, will your opponent be able to tech to the next weapon class (e.g. from Jihad to Juggs). So when your ships arrive, will they already be obsolete. If I count also the time to produce your attack fleet(s) and move them to the front, you can easily meet there a whole next generation of warships.
If you'll still decide to press your attack on one neighbour, but your other neigbour will decide to just keep growing econ and tech, will you after 30 turns of blody fighting and maybe with 15 planets more, face AMP Nubs from that second neigbour.
Since you can't demand everyone fights all the time, and can't successfully fight on two fronts, will be the "just sit and grow" strategy the most successfull. CA being banned, is the best race for that the IS with it's orgy, and the SD behind its minefields. But with SF and LFs banned, will IS pay for the orgy through the nose, and SD is not penalized with anything. And it's the cheapest of all allowed PRTs.
BR, Iztok
[Updated on: Sat, 10 April 2010 09:09] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: New game - Incommodum |
Mon, 12 April 2010 17:34 |
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| iojho |
| Officer Cadet 4th Year |
Messages: 280
Registered: October 2006
Location: EPBA | |
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Hi!
iojho, most of your writing is valid, but for a game with significantly shorter distances. This game will be played across 1200 YL universe. That means average distance from your core planets to the border will be 400+ LY. With best engine that's 4 turns.
True, 4 turns to get to front for me, but do not forget that my opponent also needs 4 turns to reach the front!
With 54 planets per player will the economies at 2460 be in 30k range. That means in those 4 turns you need to move your ship to the front, will your opponent be able to tech to the next weapon class (e.g. from Jihad to Juggs). So when your ships arrive, will they already be obsolete. If I count also the time to produce your attack fleet(s) and move them to the front, you can easily meet there a whole next generation of warships.
Taking into account your thesis that everyone will be developing their ecenomy, the above statement is false. My fleet will not be obsolete, because my oppenents would not produce any (as you content, they let their eceonomy grow up not producing warships).
If you'll still decide to press your attack on one neighbour, but your other neigbour will decide to just keep growing econ and tech, will you after 30 turns of blody fighting and maybe with 15 planets more, face AMP Nubs from that second neigbour.
This can be told about any Stars! game. But it is true only in theory. Practice seems to be different often.
Since you can't demand everyone fights all the time, and can't successfully fight on two fronts, will be the "just sit and grow" strategy the most successfull. CA being banned, is the best race for that the IS with it's orgy, and the SD behind its minefields. But with SF and LFs banned, will IS pay for the orgy through the nose, and SD is not penalized with anything. And it's the cheapest of all allowed PRTs.
This becomes a discussion about what is better "attacking" or "sitting and growing up" , which can be told in case of any Stars! game.
All in all, I do not believe that Altruist will be sitting and developing his ecenomy all the time 
"Every person speculates on creating a new need in another, so as to drive him to fresh sacrifice, to place him in a new dependence and to seduce him into a new mode of enjoyment and therefore economic ruin."
Karl Marx,1844Report message to a moderator
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Cheap prop will IMO not help much, because you'll only get a bit faster to IS-10. Then what? 